SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I only get three questions for the polygraph

This is why you must stand firm and not accept a "vague" timeline. One of your 3 questions will be: "Is the written timeline complete and truthfully documenting the relationship of you and OM?"

If you allow her this vague thing, and don’t demand specifics, she will of course pass that question. May I ask why you are accepting this?

You need to keep repeating in your head: "The only possible means of saving my M is I must be willing to lose it", unless your only goal is remaining married, which some do to their own great detriment, and then suffer greatly the rest of their lives. It’s your right of course should you desire to live the life of a masochist.

I am not accepting it no and i was going to try the gbyte data recovery to see if i could get the deleted files back but its been a few months now so I doubt it

So I know I shouldn’t have waited until after her birthday and Christmas but I did. As soon as I said something she got defensive and it started an argument she says that if I need to believe what I need to believe to move on then so be it. Problem is that I don’t want to believe something I want her to tell me what it was so that I can feel like she is being honest with me. She says things about herself like I’m a horrible person and I don’t want to be with her anymore all things I’ve never said. I get so upset it’s like she is putting words in my mouth. Everything is good if I say nothing and we have been having sex a lot and it’s been amazing but I just feel like it’s not real it’s to make me forget and not ask I did say I scheduled the polygraph and she is still on board with it I’m just thinking that will change when it comes closer. Mentally I’m exhausted I can’t just move on I love her to no end and my children are my world but I feel like my love is changing the longer I feel this way.

I am not accepting it no

Tell her to write a new timeline, a COMPREHENSIVE one, full of ALL details, and give her a timeframe of no more than a few days to complete this. Tell her if she refuses, she’s PROVEN she’s unwilling to be truthful with you, and that she’s hammered the final nail in the coffin of your M. You filing for D is merely the legal process for receiving the M’s death certificate. The patient is already dead.

BUT…. this can be no bluff. You must mean it. If you don’t, she’ll sense your fear, call your bluff, and you’ll crumble. That would forever remove any last microscopic bit of respect she ever had for you, and you’d end up in an even worse circumstance than before.

As soon as I said something she got defensive and it started an argument she says that if I need to believe what I need to believe to move on then so be it.

She has exactly zero right to defensiveness, and even if she did she would be wise to lay it down because of how deeply it hurts you in this time.

Saying you should "believe what you need to believe" is unbelievably condescending and tone deaf. You have the right to the complete truth, and you also have the right to have doubts after being lied to, and you have the right to all the time you need to process the information you’ve been given to see if you actually do believe it.

Her posture on this is typical for a cheater, but just because it is common does not make it any less abhorrent.

Mentally I’m exhausted I can’t just move on I love her to no end and my children are my world but I feel like my love is changing the longer I feel this way.

The mishandling of infidelity (defensiveness, lies, trickle truth, etc) fully has the power to wilt what once felt like eternal love.

I packed my stuff and left I’m staying in a hotel tonight but I’m looking into an apartment to rent I typed out a letter saying that I’m moving out but I will continue to pay the bills that I’m not abandoning my children it’s just no longer safe place to live and I’m not arguing in front of my kids

Talk to a lawyer, immediately. What you are doing might cause you a world of problems.

Best wishes.

Please do get with a lawyer as soon as you can to ensure that you are not abandoning your kids per the law — you need to protect yourself.
Is there an extra bedroom or den at home that you can use for space?

I get you needed a break, but be sure you protect yourself legally.

And I am sorry she is not willing to help repair what she damaged.

I can sleep on the couch and still might it’s just hard for years I’ve worked countless hours to build a home and to give them the most I could now it’s all gone it seems like I don’t see a way that we work though this

"Is the written timeline complete and truthfully documenting the relationship of you and OM?"

I can't imagine answering that question in the affirmative and not sending the recording into the stratosphere.

The question can of course be reinterpreted to say 'essentially complete', but that gives the questionee a loophole that is so big it can be got through without squirming.

Memory begets memory. For people with just somewhat functional brains, writing a timeline will have rippling effects between finishing the TL and the poly appointment. That's natural. I'd be more concerned if that didn't happen. I mean: who has not discussed a complex topic on Monday and not been disturbed by a new associated memory Monday night, and perhaps Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, too.

Further, a complete TL of your W's A is a task that would take ages to write and to read. Just consider how much longer it takes to write a sentence verbatim vs. how long it took to speak the sentence. Extrapolate that based on the number of sentences spoken during the A, the thoughts, the feelings, etc., etc., etc.

My reco is to work together to write the TL. For us, I asked a question about an event. Wrote down the answer. Asked questions generated by the answer. Moved to a new event when all my Qs were asked. Went back to previous parts of the TL when I thought of a new Q. Eventually I was satisfied that I knew not everything but everything I needed to know.

That's what worked for me. Figure out what will work for you. Just don't think telling your WS to write everything down will in itself get you what you need - it will give you a beginning at best.

****

Further, creating a TL together is an opportunity to build trust. It challenges the WS to come clean. If the WS steps up, it's positive for R. if they don't, it a signal that D may be a better choice.

*****

Ink,

I'm going to suggest your soften your stance on defensiveness.

I could accept defensiveness if it came with honesty. Especially in the early post-d-day period, it seems churlish to expect the WS to answer questions with equanimity about their own perfidy.

My guess is that building a record of honesty will allow a WS to put defensiveness aside.

******

WorriedHusband,

I have a hard time imagining a WS dropping defensiveness if they continue to lie - by commission or omission. You've given your W many chances, and she hasn't yet stepped up to take responsibility for her actions.

I'm very sorry you're in the process of pulling the plug on your hopes, but I think you're making a good decision for yourself and your kids and perhaps for your W.

Keep breathing. Keep hydrated. Move your body. Get support for yourself - I'm all for working with a good IC. Play with your kids. Feed your soul. Better days are ahead, whether your D completes or if your WS wakes up..

I stayed at home on the couch we still argued last night when I came back. Whatever I say she has a response to almost like I’m the one to blame for all of this. It’s the hardest thing I’ve ever had to deal with no matter what I say she has an excuse as to why I’m the issue my head is so messed up I’ve asked her to leave and she refuses. Last night she yelled at me through her phone and I took it she then flipped out and said she would call the police with the kids phone. I feel like she has lost it and that I should call the police and have her removed from the house. I really don’t know what to do anymore.

I am not sure on this, and please get input from others here, but it might be time to tell the OBS and possible her parents? Again, not sure on this, but it is what comes to my mind.

Maybe this has already happened, I forget the details.

[This message edited by WoodThrush2 at 3:03 PM, Saturday, December 27th]

OP, as others have said, please be careful about legal abandonment. Talk to a lawyer and figure out what your legal rights and obligations are.

ETA: document all the unhinged behavior from your wife. Write it down, consider recording it if it is legal where you are. Talk to a lawyer post haste, defend yourself against a false domestic violence accusation.

Ink,

I'm going to suggest your soften your stance on defensiveness.

I could accept defensiveness if it came with honesty. Especially in the early post-d-day period, it seems churlish to expect the WS to answer questions with equanimity about their own perfidy.

My guess is that building a record of honesty will allow a WS to put defensiveness aside.

I was surprised to see this. With the greatest respect, I decline the invitation.

When I saw this I went back and checked my diary. About six months post d-day, I had created a scale of what behaviors from my wife hurt or helped. The worst was if I was vulnerable and it was met by my wife with anger, it was like a sword in my heart. The second worst thing was if I was vulnerable and that was met with defensiveness. It was crushing. Given the circumstances, I’ll label it as abusive. Gottman tells us that defensiveness will kill any relationship. A wayward using it as a weapon against a freshly crushed BS is horrific. I experienced it extensively. Regardless if it is uncommon for a cheater not to use it, it is atrocious, and I will let any BS know that is the case if only to help them keep a grip on sanity.

I respect your opinion a great deal Sisoon and am willing to talk more privately if you wish.

[This message edited by InkHulk at 4:27 PM, Saturday, December 27th]

Blameshifting and attacking the BS is very common for a WS. You have to be the reason she cheated. She is deep in denial. You are responsible for your part of the M, but she is totally responsible for the decision to betray you. Accept no blame. Implement the 180. Dont engage or argue she will just attack. Always value yourself. Take care of your kids. You can't nice her back.

Good luck.

WH,

This is developing exactly as I would expect it to, all of this just steers harder into exactly what I previously said to you and I take no joy in saying that. I know full well how much this hurts, how difficult it is to accept and I truly feel for you. I promise, I do.

As soon as I said something she got defensive and it started an argument she says that if I need to believe what I need to believe to move on then so be it. Problem is that I don’t want to believe something I want her to tell me what it was so that I can feel like she is being honest with me. She says things about herself like I’m a horrible person and I don’t want to be with her anymore all things I’ve never said. I get so upset it’s like she is putting words in my mouth.

Getting defensive and casting blame onto you are more classic signs of infidelity. I went through all of this. She is currently showing no signs of true remorse. Nor is she even willing to be honest with you about what truly happened. Things are being drastically minimized to try to protect herself. Shes in no way thinking of you, or the harm she has caused you.

It also seems that she is used to you caving when she gets upset. She makes you question yourself, instead of her. These are typical deflection techniques.

What you need to keep in mind:
Im not saying your marriage was perfect or that you have done everything right. None of us have. But her decision to engage with another person while married to you was hers and hers alone. If she truly had concerns with you and your marriage, she should of spoken with you or started the divorce process. It doesnt in any way excuse Adultery.

Stick with the polygraph. My gut says she's going to do anything she can to get out of it once the date approaches. That could look like blaming you and starting a huge fight, refusing to do it for any number of reasons, faking an emergency, you name it. It could look like an assortment of things. But the key to it is, she doesnt go.

As far as questions, you do need to keep it yes or no and 3 to 4.

My suggestions:
While married to WH, Have you ever had sex with anyone other than your husband WH?

While married to WH, have you ever sent nude photos to anyone other than your husband WH?

While married to WH, did you ever have sex with (APs Name)?

While married to WH, did you ever send nude photos to (APs Name)?

Purpose:
These will cover whether she cheated with him or anyone else.

Keep in Mind:

Even if she does go and take the test, (which i doubt based on everything you've said), she will still minimize this after.

They only admit to what they have to. So once caught with a polygraph, expect her response to be, it was only one time. But keep in mind, her previous story was it never happened. Nor is her one time story true. Trickle truth is very common in this scenerio.

The question for you will be, is knowing she cheated enough to make the decisions you need about your life? Or will you need to know how many times, how long it went on for, etc.

If so you could always schedule another polygraph down the line, but it will need to be phrased in yes or no questions.

Again, im truly sorry to hear your going through this WH, it was definitely the worst experience of my life, so I feel for you.

Good luck and stay strong!

I do thank you all you have been very helpful through all of this I’m very lucky to have come across this site. It is the hardest thing I’ve ever dealt with I’m still unsure how it will end but know I have all of you to help guide me in a path of clarity and closure

A good operator will help you define 'sex'. If they don't, I would cancel the poly.

Record every interaction to protect yourself. Stop starting arguments if it escalates leave the area and do not engage. Once threatening police, any form of abuse can be thrown at you, which while hard to prove also hard to disprove.

Lawyer up, keep interactions to kids welfare. Tread carefully always

I can sleep on the couch and still might it’s just hard for years I’ve worked countless hours to build a home and to give them the most I could now it’s all gone it seems like I don’t see a way that we work though this

I hear you. It is so very very hard and she sounds emotionally unhinged from your description.

As to this quote, heres what I advise.

First of all, drop the "we". Right now there seems to be no way forward for you (plural), but there is a clear way forward for you (singular) and you have been understandably reticent to walk down that path but I think its becoming apparent that this (limited contact/verbal interaction, legal consult, begin the divorce process) is your (singular) way forward.

I totally get the feeling of loss. That your efforts are being discounted, devalued and thrown in the trash. Boy do I ever get this feeling.

But

There is still the intrinsic value of your hard work and effort outside of this mess. In time, Im sure your kids will come to appreciate it.

Please stop engaging her. The interaction is now so toxic that it has a life of its own.

See an attorney pronto. Follow their direction to the letter. Start the process of disentagling your lives and begin the divorce process. Remember, if she makes a miraculous turn around into full remorse mode (settle for nothing less), you can always halt the process.

When talking to your attorney, ask them about bringing in support in the form of close family and friends.

So very many here have walked this path and made it through to tbe other side and began to thrive again. You can too.

That journey begins with the first step.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 12:48 PM, Sunday, December 28th]

My two cents on the poly:

The poly does not give you the truth.
What it can do is give you honesty. Is your wife honest in her answers.
Her answers might not be the factual truth. Like if you KNOW via factual info (witnesses, financial transactions, location services...) that she met OM 8 times but she only remembers 7, then she would be telling the truth and pass a poly if she answers the question "did you meet OM 8 times" with a "no".
Understanding the difference between truth and honesty is key.

The accuracy of a poly is disputed. Some give it as high as 95%, some as low as 50%.
The big problem in evaluating reliability is in how to test it. Like... I guess law enforcement deal with a higher proportion of sociopaths that don’t really differentiate right and wrong. They can pass poly’s because they don’t react to lies.
If you do a typical controlled test to evaluate the effectiveness you might have a group of college students that are offered a voucher for pizza in return for participation. A group will be asked to lie, to something that has no consequence to them. For them it’s just exciting. You fail the "have you ever smoked pot" question you still get a pizza.
Replace that with someone like your wife, who believes the future of her relationship hinges on passing... That’s a totally different level of stress.

Yes – there are strategies to fool a poly. But a) the operator is trained to spot them and b) you need practice to learn how to use those techniques.

I think the accuracy is high. Definitely not 100%, but probably above or around 85%. That’s higher right now than the word of a person that cheated on you.

Base the questions on a list you give your wife. Don’t tell her what questions or how many the test actually is. That list can contain as many questions as you want, and include emotional-based ones (only... none of them will come on the poly). She can know that the poly will be based on these questions.
You can repeat the same question in several ways on that list: Did you cuddle with OM? Did you kiss OM? Did you make out with OM? Did you give or receive touching of breasts or privates with OM? Did you give or receive oral with OM? Did OM have an orgasm in your presence? Did you give OM oral sex? Did you receive oral sex from OM? Did you have PIV sex with OM?
The operator will probably condense this to one question, and chances are he asks your key question in two different ways.
For example: After having defined the term "sex" he might ask:
Did you have sex with OM or anyone else from your place of work?
And:
Since marrying Worried, have you had sexual relations with any other man?

Frankly – if she passes these two key questions you can (and probably need to) deduct she’s being honest in other answers on your pre-test list.

I think the poly needs to be a watershed moment.
If you don’t believe the result and have a clear picture of your options post-poly... don’t do it. It will be a waste of money. Also, if you don’t want to reconcile – don’t waste time, effort and money on a poly.

The watershed moment is this: If your spouse passes then she is being honest. If she’s answered on the 20 key-questions you asked her before the poly, and then passes the 3-4 key questions the operator asks, you can logically assume she’s being honest on all issues. If she’s being honest, you have to give her that and start your work at rebuilding some form of trust to work onwards with.
This is not the same as suggesting you trust her, but it is a building block – a firm patch of stone in the foundation.

If she fails... well... that should tell you a couple of things: Mainly – she’s not being honest. That should tell you that no matter what you WANT, the foundation is still a quagmire of mud and nothing can be built there. Frankly – your next call should be to an attorney.
About the only thing that should sway you from that path could be true admission (possibly followed by another poly) or her ability to prove beyond doubt her statements. Something more than her word.

Some years ago we had a poster whose wife had spent an afternoon at a hotel with her boss. Along in her bag from home were sex-toys and lingerie. Texts and VAR-recordings contained sexual talk, references to past incidents and plans for future. This along with a lot more, and yet she denied any sex. The poster demanded a poly, and leading up to it he found search history on how to beat a poly, and a prescription for a sedative recommended to help beat a poly. She failed. He let her take it again, and she failed. Last time he posted he was wondering what to do – trying to reconcile with a wife that had rug-swept her affair, kept her career and was behaving as if nothing had happened and failed two poly’s. He hasn’t posted for some years, but I am 100% certain that if he’s still married to this woman then he’s miserable. Please don’t be that man...

The key for success IMHO is to have the goal of the polygraph examination clear to both parties. The key to that can be to make the consequence of being trustful being less bad – and even positive – to the consequence of being dishonest, and this is clear to BOTH of you.
So you tell your wife something like:
I want to reconcile but we can’t without having the truth.
I want to believe you, but I can’t because you broke the trust that needs to be between us.
I can accept the truth, but I can’t accept dishonesty. If you are truthful now we have a chance – even if you are still hiding something. Tell me now and we have a chance because I will know what we are dealing with, and by being truthful to me it shows you trust me with the truth.
Fail the poly and that tells me that a) I don’t have the truth and b) you don’t trust me.
Pass the poly and I will work on ways to reestablish trust, and ways we can reconcile our marriage.
Fail the poly and I will have to assume you are hiding something and that you don’t trust me. There is no reason to attempt or accept reconciliation if there is no trust – either way – between us.

Ps: Hows your sobriety going? To me that is a key issue if you want to reconcile.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 3:07 PM, Sunday, December 28th]