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Bigger thank you all great advice it is all very helpful and things have been getting better between us. I hope that the day of the polygraph comes she doesn’t try to get out of it because it will be painful clear she is still lying to me. We did sit down and talked to our children some about what’s going on just not details obviously I’m not trying to scar them anymore then all of this already is.

I hope that the day of the polygraph comes she doesn’t try to get out of it because it will be painful clear she is still lying to me. 

Probability is high that this is exactly how it will go down. If she does delay/decline what is your plan then?

There was a poster here who was in much the same position (insisting on a poly and wife delayed and delayed even claiming mental-emotional duress over his insistance. She even had family members run interference for her but he held his ground. She eventually did take it as he had started the separation process so she capitulated....and failed the poly.

Know this, if you dont have a plan for her, she will have a plan for you.

On another note, do whatever it takes to stay sober.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 12:03 PM, Monday, December 29th]

Since marrying Worried, have you had sexual relations with any other man?

Better to say "….with anyone else?". There are cases right here where the adulterous partner was same-sex…..

I have an attorney already who knows the situation and has paperwork ready and I have stayed sober it’s been over two months since I’ve had a drink. Now with that said I might have had a few drinks a night but was not drinking until I was drunk if I had three mixed drinks in an evening that was a lot spread over a time of 4 to 5 hours and when I stopped drinking I have not had an issue I’m not an alcoholic and I don’t miss drinking I really was doing it I think more because we just didn’t talk and I’d ask if something was wrong and always told no not that I have an issue with your drinking. I admit it became more than I had ever done before but I don’t go to bars or drive when I have I’m home so I feel like it was more of a way to point a finger at me but maybe I’m wrong either way I’m done doing it so she has no ammo.

Hopefully you can stand your ground if at the last minute she comes up with reasons why she can't or should not take the test. If this happens and you back down the chances of you knowing the truth are almost zero because she will now know that you will always back down from your ultimatums

You realize your drinking was just a convenient finger pointing excuse to blame you, the betrayed spouse, for the affair.

My H had a million reasons to justify his last affair. Some of his "reasons" went back 20 years over issues that had been resolved. Stupid minor disagreements that were resolved and never mentioned again were suddenly the "reason" he used to justify being a cheater.

So your drinking was never an issue for her IMO. It was just an excuse.

What TheFirstWife said. If my drinking was so bad then you had a duty as a wife to sit down with me and talk to me about it and if I refused to address it then it is your duty to tell me that if I don't fix this you are leaving but that would be the adult thing to do.

Even if I am the absolute worst husband in the history of civilization that would not justify an affair.

My wife tried saying that in years past when I would just go silent because I was upset about something that made what she did partly my fault. Then she tried the excuse that I was angry all the time which was just a pathetic excuse to shift blame

Everything your wife is doing is just an excuse to make you feel bad, to make her feel less guilty, and to make you believe that what she did is your fault and this is typical for most cheaters

Reconciliation will not work until she can accept full responsibility and she articulates to you that it is 100% her fault and that she feels horrible about it and she feels horrible for destroying the trust in your marriage and she feels horrible for the pain and suffering she has caused you

WB it is becoming pretty clear that’s probably not going to happen I don’t think she really thinks what she did was wrong

I don’t think she really thinks what she did was wrong

Sorry if I’m stating the obvious, but since that’s the case, you have nothing to work with here. Start the D process. If a miracle occurs and she hits *true* remorse (defined as taking 100% responsibility, being 100% honest and transparent as to everything she did, and, is truly focused on how this impacted YOU instead of just being upset how SHE’s been impacted by exposure, and she becomes willing to crawl over broken glass for YEARS in an attempt to build a new M), you can always stop the D.

Do not count on it. It’s extremely rare. If you want to see what true remorse looks like, read Pogre’s thread(s) and carefully examine his wife’s actions (not coincidentally starting AFTER he made it clear he was starting the D process).

Without full honesty, full accountability, and true/sustained remorse (as defined above), true reconciliation is impossible.

"WB it is becoming pretty clear that’s probably not going to happen I don’t think she really thinks what she did was wrong"

Then R will not work. She wants to rug sweep because that is what is easiest for her and your feelings/needs/pain are not important. Sorry to be so on the nose but that's reality.

Call an attorney, make an appointment, tell your wife. How she reacts will demonstrate her true feelings

WB it is becoming pretty clear that’s probably not going to happen I don’t think she really thinks what she did was wrong

Sorry sir. Truly. There is no remedy for recalcitrance in the face of reasonable confrontatation. You are understandably holding her accountable and she is rejecting it. Imo, most traitors do exactly this. They maneuver, minimize, obfuscate, protest vehemently, guilt trip, blame shift....anything to avoid that dreaded word...accountability. Some (the vast minority imo) work to embrace accountability (once out of the fog of their adultery), become truly remoreseful, and work tirelessly to become a whole person and a trustworthy partner. There are some tremendous examples of this on this site and Ive learned a lot from them. One of the lessons is unintended and that is that the contrast between them and the majority is glaring.

I think you are coming to the point of acceptance which took me a long time to truly achieve (I smoked hopium for far too long). Acceptance is both good and painful and for that, Im truly sorry.

BTW, great to hear about drinking being a non-issue for you.

Strength and clarity to you.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 2:22 PM, Tuesday, December 30th]

I’m not really sure where we are at the moment like I said if I don’t bring it up act like nothing happened we are fine. Now with that being said I have noticed little things tend to set her off the rails fast. I was going to paint a room in our house because the wall had holes from nails being removed so I patched the holes and in needed paint. I took our daughter to the store she said she liked a color so I bought it took it home and painted the wall still having a few to do to make everything match. Well my wife says I’m just not sure of it ( to me that’s a I don’t like it) so I said that’s fine tell me a color. Our son says red because the room was grey to start if I two tone it we are Ohio State fans. The wife said idk then shows me a yellowish cream color she picked out. I said that’s fine but I grabbed a red swatch to just see the reds they had and she lost her mind. I said look or daughter picked the first color son picked the second meanwhile he is crying thinking it’s his fault she is mad. I say I don’t care I just want to paint the wall (to me it’s for selling the home when the split happens but I’m not saying that) so I take our son to baseball practice she goes to look at paint and comes back with flipping red and says she loves it. At this point I don’t know how to act I’m scared to say anything she has never been like this before she is like a different person all the sudden. She just turned 40 and I know was struggling with that I just want the woman I married back.

I’m not really sure where we are at the moment like I said if I don’t bring it up act like nothing happened we are fine. Now with that being said I have noticed little things tend to set her off the rails fast.

Where you are is walking on egg shells for the sake of a mentally unstable person. Reminds me of my ex. Just a few days after d-day, we were talking about a non-A related topic but she was using subtle deception to get her way. I called her out on it and she lost her ever loving fucking mind. She started banging her head against the car window and deep scratching her forearm. It is super fucked up stuff.

It goes to show that the adage of BS heals BS, WS heals WS is so true. For all your pain in this, she almost certainly has far more to heal than you do. She had trauma, and then she went and damaged herself even more by becoming an adulterer. If she won’t even acknowledge there is a problem, she won’t get better, and time doesn’t heal this stuff.

[This message edited by InkHulk at 2:51 PM, Tuesday, December 30th]

About the painting of the room:

This isn’t about paint at all. Not even a little.

What you’re seeing is a pattern that shows up very often after infidelity, especially when the betraying partner is emotionally unstable, flooded with guilt and terrified of losing control.

Because they can’t control the big realities anymore (the betrayal, the marriage status, the future), they unconsciously try to control small, concrete things. Paint colors, household decisions, schedules, tone of conversations these become symbolic "control points."

If I don’t bring things up, we’re fine = emotional suppression

It means:
Peace is conditional upon not bringing up painful truths.

Honesty causes explosions as they dont want to face any accountability.

That dynamic is not stability, it’s avoidance.

Some (the vast minority imo) work to embrace accountability (once out of the fog of their adultery), become truly remoreseful, and work tirelessly to become a whole person and a trustworthy partner.

DT is right. This is what is required to have a healthy relationship after infidelity. Ignoring this problem will never work out the way you wanted it to. Ask the numerous betrayed who have had this issue repeat over and over again in their relationships, most with people they never thought in a million years were even capable of this. Its not just a matter of getting through this one, its ensuring there is true change so it never happens again. If left unchecked, it will. It only gets harder as this cycle is repeated.

What I will say however, to DTs point, they need to get out of the Adultery fog, be honest, transparent and remorseful for what they’ve done before you will truly see any change (Most never do, but some do such as in my case), it sounds like she is still deep within this.

Even when things do go this direction this takes alot of dedication, time, effort and emotional energy.

You have to be firm and serious. If they believe they can manipulate you, they will take the path of least resistance and continue doing that.

Any time they try to deflect you put it back on them. "This isnt about me, ive been completely honest and faithful to you, this is about your decisions and how those have affected our marriage."

Any time she gets upset and causes a scene about something meaningless, she's just gaslighting you. If she can upset you and make you question yourself or your decisions, your not focused on hers. Dont take the bait.

Keep redirecting back to her or shut the conversation down if its unhealthy. But the key is to try not to get emotional. Just stay firm, grounded and honest and keep the focus on her decisions. Not yours.

Again, I wish you the best WH, these situations are very difficult, stay strong!

I get the sense that this particular situation is escalating beyond what is known.
I think we should focus on what is known rather than what we assume.

Assumptions are fine. It’s OK to work from them, but its not OK to assume an assumption is 100% correct – it’s a possibility for something rather than a factual thing. The goal of the requested polygraph is to validate or remove the assumptions.

What is known:
WW was texting and communicating with a male coworker.

She recognized that this communication was bad for her marriage (The next day she texted him and said she could longer talk to him that she was going to work on her marriage to which he didn’t reply.)

That since she is now limiting time with him to work where others are present, we can ASSUME the communications were beyond work and even work events. What we don’t know if that is meeting outside of work, or using opportunities at work to meet (breaks, lunch etc).

We know pictures were exchanged, but so far only have evidence of "innocent" pictures.

We have an insistence from her of nothing inappropriate having taken place (albeit – also an acknowledgement that what they were doing was bad for her marriage). Mitigating this claim is that logs have been deleted.

The dressing up, wearing thongs... I do not equate these things to infidelity, nor even an indicator for infidelity. I got some new patterned shirts this month to wear mainly at work – doesn’t equate to me cheating.
We know the promised timeline will not be complete to the detail needed – as is evident in her statement that parts will be vague.

All the above is VERY disturbing and IMHO clearly indicate some boundaries were crossed. But this sounds like a near-stereotypical workplace emotional affair, and hopefully it was caught BEFORE it crossed to a full physical affair.
Not that it makes the pain less or even the damage less. It’s possible they made out, or held hands, or he pecked her on the cheek or whatever. Or maybe they went at it full-force in group-orgies with the workplace-swingers-club in a BDSM leather dungeon... We don’t know... Truth probably lies somewhere closer to the gentler scenario I imagined.

To clarify that, we have the proposed polygraph.

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What I fear is happening is a serious lack of communication.
Like... worried got Not Just Friends and read it but isn’t clear if his wife read it too. The book by itself doesn’t do any good. It’s like having a gym-membership card in your pocket and wondering why you don’t lose weight. To gain from the book you read together, talk about it and compare it to your situation.
The fear of making demands clear. Like in waiting with requirements until after Christmas.
The whole kazmoo about the paint.
Heck... the threat about moving out, discussions about renting an apartment and then a couple of days doing DIY’s at home... Heck... if your threats are "true" then go get a neutral white, because the house is going on sale as part of a divorce...
The wife’s comments about drinking... we don’t know from what is shared if she made her concerns clear BEFORE d-day or if this is just an excuse (as it probably is now).
I see ultimatums and threats not carried out. Frankly, to me these threats like "I’m moving out" and then not doing so are comparable to kids who threaten to hold their breath if forced to finish the broccoli on their plate.
Comments about who is right and wrong, and less about results (like the drinking... it’s not really relevant to the infidelity, but it might be relevant to reconciliation. Being sober is not you "winning" that argument – either you need to be sober (as an alcoholic) or you need to moderate your drinking (as we all tend to do) OR it’s a non-issue being used as a retrospective excuse...

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EA’s are a strange thing...
The book we harp on about – Not Just Friends – was initially published 1985 or so. That’s not really long ago... At the time it was heavily disputed because most therapists didn’t really think emotional affairs were a "thing". Dr. Shirley Glass is probably most noted for being a key factor in changing that perception. Even today, many therapists minimize or even dismiss EA’s.
After all – if your wife and OM "simply" took their lunch together at a quiet bench at a park near work, talked about their families, ambitions, problems, hopes... Maybe even held each other when one started crying... but no groping, no kissing, no acting on any sexual tension or excitement (even though it’s presence is acknowledged) then maybe your wife does believe she did "nothing wrong". At least nothing that justifies your reaction.

I don’t see it that way. I think that if the above is the real scenario then the odds are 9/10 it would have developed into a full-on sexual affair. I do think she did something wrong, and the poly is the tool to realize what it was. Or confirm it was still at this early stage.

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What I would suggest is communicating.

First of all Worried – you are totally entitled to decide if you want this marriage or not. You don’t describe a very happy or focused relationship so maybe you want to call time on it. But then – I think what you describe is a very typical marriage that might need some adjustment and focus.
If what you know is enough and you want out – then make that clear. Stop all this about the poly and you two start discussing how to end this marriage in the best way possible for the kids.

With the poly – what is it you want to know?
Let’s address what I guess we men fear the most: Did she have sex with him?
Would learning she did be a total dealbreaker? If so – does she know that?
If it is – and especially if she knows – then she will lie in the hope of faking the poly (after all... it’s "only" 85% reliable) or in the hope of you not acting on a failed poly.
What would you call "sex"? Like if they made out, maybe even some groping, but no skin-on-skin contact... would that be "ok"?

I think your best bet is to make the importance of truth very clear to her. Present the poly as a tool that can benefit you both, IF she is being honest.
Make it clear that learning NOW about sexual context or any other context you need will hurt and might even impact your belief in reconciliation. Make it clear that you need direct answers in the timeline – not vague. If they had sex, you don’t need details (beyond what you realistically need) but you need to know what happened.
The poly – present it as the wonder-tool it is: It’s there to help her prove to you that she trusts YOU with the truth. All she has to do is be truthful in the build-up and the poly will confirm her honesty.
Make it equally clear that if she fails then it tells you two things: First of all that you have reason to doubt everything and anything she has told you. For all you know she meets OM at the gate and spends all day with him. More importantly it tells you she doesn’t trust you, and since there is no trust in the marriage then the only logical thing to do is formalize it’s demise.

Make it clear that from now until the poly you two can cohabit and be friendly and all, but you can’t commit to your marriage or to reconciliation fully until you believe her. This period – from now to the poly – is the period she has to sit down and discuss what happened. No need to go into why per se. Until you know WHAT, then the why isn’t really relevant.

I have said if she just tells me the truth now I’d be willing to work on or marriage. She is standing firm they have only seen each other twice in person they don’t work in the same places in this plant and it is a large place so i I don’t think they are meeting up for lunch and what not. She swears nothing inappropriate was sent other than a selfie but nothing nude and he didn’t send anything nude. The deleting everything is what makes me feel it was stuff she doesn’t want me to know but swears it wasn’t she did it because she knew it was wrong either way and had already told him she was done communicating before I had her text him. The things I found out she didn’t know about him showed her he was lying to her so I do not think she is still communicating with him she is angry with him for manipulating her. Like I have told her I feel like she is still hiding things and I can’t move forward until I know she is being truthful that is why I wanted the poly to prove her story as the proof was deleted and she broke my trust so taking her word is hard. The drinking was not said to me before I found out she said I knew she didn’t like it but that’s not the case so idk. I want to keep my family together more than anything so I’m willing to do whatever I have to I just wish she would as well.

Whatever did happen, what is certain is that there was a breech of trust. That should be enough for her to care deeply and recognize the danger to the marriage. She is responding in all the wrong ways to your pain, regardless of what preceded it. What is known has caused damage, it is very normal to wonder what else there may be.

There is also a lot of smoke here. I have no idea what work shirts could be equivalent to thongs, maybe I’ll ask AI to fill in an image that my mind can’t come up with

I know I have mentioned the drinking but it’s not really an issue – based on what you share. It probably is a retrospective excuse on her behalf.

If you can – and I know this is hard – then try to behave "normally" until the poly is over. If you want to focus on something, then investigate ways for better communications. The paint issue might be a good place to start... ask her how she suggest you two resolve that and then try to work from there.

What you two are dealing with is something that will take time. You won’t fix it in a few days or months. However, I personally don’t think it’s even worth starting towards R until you feel like you have the truth.
Eventually – IF she passes the poly – then MC might be a great idea where you two focus on communications. Remember that listening is probably about 80% of communications...

I want to share one thing about drinking...
There are dozens of definitions of alcoholism. The one I think is possibly the best is something like "you are an alcoholic when you drink despite knowing your drinking is bringing negativity to both you and your loved ones".
This could be reflected in something as relatively simple as having to have a rum and coke despite knowing that you are going to pick your kids up from soccer practice right after the drink, or having to guzzle a beer despite knowing your wife would prefer you didn’t smell of alcohol when her family visits... It’s the "have to" that is the kicker.
I went through a phase in my life where I established an unhealthy drinking pattern. Basically, I was drinking beers and shots 4 days a week. Wednesday after team-practice (maybe only 1-2), Thursday with the guys after the game (4-6), Fridays with the boys from work, Saturdays from about noon into the night, Sundays one or two with the game on TV...
One day I was thinking – is this too much? Am I an alcoholic? I decided to quit drinking, and I remained sober for nearly a year. Since then (over 40 years ago...) I have been a moderate drinker. I know I’m not an alcoholic – I can abstain, I can stop drinking, and my drinking doesn’t cause negativity to others. But I had an unhealthy drinking pattern that I broke out of with that sobriety. Hopefully that’s what you are dealing with.

Her response to the thong was she didn’t want her underwear to be seen through her scrub pants idk. I think she was enjoying the new attention she was getting that she wasn’t used to and it got out of hand.

I get the feeling that she is becoming more worried about the upcoming test and lashing out because she is either angry or scared or something else. WS's will use anger to manipulate and control, especially when you want answers to questions they do not want to answer. My wife did it very early on and because I was afraid she would run to him if I got angry I tolerated it. Once I got my you know whats back and started replying with anger that restored the Power Balance

If you back down when she gets angry she could use that to keep you from asking the questions she does not want to answer

And Bigger is correct about the paint. If you are serious about selling the house then have everything painted a neutral color because the next owner will not like your colors. But her getting upset has nothing to do with the color choice, it has everything to do with her affair