The Maddening Perplexity of a WS's "Love" Claims For The BS
OK.
Im sure this has been wrangled with ad infinitum on this site, but, Im going to bring it up again, i.e., what exactly is a highly traumatized BS supposed to do with these claims of "love" after experiencing the absolute antithesis of what that word supposedly represents? Seriously??!!
I got a version of this years ago and have tried to wrap my noodle around it ever since, to little avail. Ive read different versions of these claims from, at a minimum, regretful WS's and at maximum, the truly remorseful. They range from:
• I still love(d) you
• I forgot how much I loved you
• My love for you never stopped
• I love you but Im not in love with you, but now maybe I am again?
• Now I remember how much I love you
Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
As I have processed this for myself and through other's stories, I have postulated a number of explanations for these post-betrayal love claims, antithetical as they may be to the actions of the WS:
• Its just another lie that they are trying to sell to minimize damage. A method of control & manipulation.
• They never really understood the term from the get go. It has shallow meaning to them to which they hold on loosely
• Their definition of that term is vastly different to that of the BS, it was just never discussed. They mouthed the same word, but the meanings behind it were miles apart.
• They didnt have the ethical/moral development to back up the claim (I talk a lot about developmental gaps). In other words, writing committment checks that their level of character development cannot cash.
• They really do mean "love", but that love for their BS has no primacy. Put another way, they love themselves far more and that for their BS is a distant second.
• Their FoO has given them such a warped, broken example of the term (or complete lack thereof) that it is quite literally a facade and the depth is paper thin.
• A combo of some of the above.
I dont know. I may be windmill tilting but am interested in other's take on this.
91 comments posted: Sunday, November 3rd, 2024
Memories
I have a question for you all about memories. Specifically good, pre-betrayal memories.
For many years, I could not recollect the good memories of events that took place of our dating, courtship, earlier marriage and family. Its not like I forgot them totally, its like they were blocked out by the betrayal. Like an eclipse. When I saw pictures of those times, i was detached. Like I was looking at someone else's life. There was no emotional attachment and as soon as I stopped looking at them, there was no lingering emotion or rumination. Its like the memories of the affair and following torturous years consumed all of my recollection bandwidth. Like there was nothing before it.
Now, in recent years, those memories are returning, many times unbidden. When they do, I have a mix of emotions ranging from smiles to getting misty eyed. This happened to me recently and I actually remembered that we had some photos of that memory in a family album that I dug out of a closet and actually reminisced for a while and could smile.
Anyone else experience this phenomenon? What has been your relatuonship with pre-affair memories?
10 comments posted: Monday, August 12th, 2024
Behaviors That Are Not Helpful/Productive For Newly Betrayeds
Been thinking on this for a while. I know we have resorces on this site that deal with this but bear with me here.
As I continue to conduct a post mortum of my first marriage and betrayal that happened as a young husband and father, I can now clearly see some of the behaviors that contributed to the misery that occured over the subsequent decade that I decided to stay. In case a newly betrayed stumbles on this thread, I thought Id list some of them and ask for others input:
• Being wayyyy too nice. If I could reach back through time Id grab my young man self and try to drive some sense into me to elucidate that the altruistic, many times, get slaughtered, like sheep do. This is why I had to read resources like No More Mr Nice Guy
• White knighting it. Kind of related to the first but with the added dimension of a savior complex, i.e. Ive got enough love to save us both. Ah, young D.T. this will get you nowhere fast.
• Stubbornly refusing to acknowledge the death of the marriage. See above.
• Stuffing the anger. Anger is so very potent and if it is not acknowledged and vented in a non destructive way, it WILL eat you up inside.
• Isolating/go it alone. Terrible choice. I was horribly equipped to deal with this betrayal, especially as it was a x2 (wife and best friend). I needed help desperately. I did seek help much later, after it was all over but I cant help but think what may have been had I reached out back then.
• Staying for the kids. This had such powerful pull, but all it did was cause terrible friction/tension in the home and the kids could easily sense it.
• Settling for semi-remorse. This was very bad. She blew hot and cold when it came to true remorse. It left me in limbo and my inaction led to a frankenmarriage.
• ETA - Passive-aggressive behaviors (see my post at bottom of this page).
• ETA2 - False guilt. I went through a brief spate of false guilt (what did I do wrong to vause this?) but this was short lived.
• ETA3 - Internalizing the pain & grief and not allowing myself to mourn the loss of what we had (compounded by being first and only's).
• ETA4 - Staying in the same home for altruistic reasons, the foremost being that my WW loved the home.
• ETA5 - Turning a blind eye to/minimizing red flags, because, surely it cant be what it seems.
These are a few that Ive IDd. Anyone else want to pitch in/add to the list of self defeating behaviors of newly betrayeds?
123 comments posted: Tuesday, July 16th, 2024
The Lies We Tell Ourselves
Been ruminating on this for a while. The lies WS's and BS's tell themselves before, during and after a betrayal that either help facilitate an affair and/or prolong the destruction and pain thereof.
Ill start. As a young BH with a wildly unstable and abusive upbringing, I had no sense of self or what it meant to be a strong man who believed in their worth. I had no role model. Pretty much raised myself. My coping mechanism was to minimize, rationalize, and normalize toxic and harmful behavior in others that detrimentally affected me. I was in survival modde. It was my learned behavior/coping nechanism.
So, the lies I told myself before and during the A when I saw, but did not recognize, the red flags were:
• "Its not that bad" (It was far worse)
• "I can work this out/improve" (now know it was the "pick me" dance and know it takes two to tango)
• "It cant be what it seems"
After the A when things were very very rough, I told myself:
• "It was only once" (90% sure untrue)
• "Ive been through worse, I can make this work" (I didnt know what I didnt know)
• "I can deal with this myself, I dont need anyone's help" (probably the greatest lie of all, the "island unto myself" lie. This alone prolonged my suffering for years)
• "I have enough love to save this marriage and my family (serious white knight syndrome)
These lies greased the wheels of painful decline and compounded suffering for a decade before it ended.
I thought it may be instructiive and helpful for BS's and WS's to share their own versions of lies they told themselves, aka self deception, and how they percieve them now, so feel free to pitch in. Id appreciate your thoughts.
* Note - I have now had years of great therapy and have shed much of the crippling coping mechanisms listed above and am thankful yet vigilant as they have a habit of creaping back in to my thoughts and behaviors.
32 comments posted: Friday, October 13th, 2023
Talking to Your Adult Children About Infidelity
Before I begin. Eternal Honor and Respect To All Victims of 9/11 and The Amazing First Responders. Never Forget Indeed.
Backstory. My betrayal was as a young Husband and Father. Thought Id hit the jackpot and it turned into pot of cr@p when my then wife betrayed me with my ex best friend. For a guy who grew up in an unstable (to put it mildly), fractured and abusive home, wanting to have what I never had, it was a massive blow. Ill spare you the shyt show of those years but it was awful, Though I tried to the best of my ability to rebuild for 10 years, it was for naught and extremely painful. I just didnt know what I didnt know. Im now in a great marriage with an exceptional woman who is also a survivor of a brutal betrayal. Ive also invested in years of excellent therapy/coaching to right the ship of my life.
Thats a bit of my story.
Some years ago I lost a friend due to infidelity. By "lost", I dont mean broken relationship, I mean self deletion. The pain of infidelity was, in their mind, so intense that life became unbearable. Shock and sorrow ensued, followed by extreme anger. Marital traitors do not factor in the massive detrimental effect that their betrayal will have on all involved. Lives may literally be at stake.
This triggered me big time. A lot of old feelings came roaring back. Thankfully, I now have a lot of tools onboard to mitigate that emotional flooding. During that time I also found this place and began using my voice and speaking out. Before that, I didnt speak much of it as there was lingering shame from my betrayal. Im silent no more.
So thats the backdrop which brings me to the title of my post.
Some time ago I had very serious discussions with my adult children individually. Some are married, others in serious committed relationships. In that discussion, I talked about how important fidelity was was in their relationships and how very much I detested infidelity/betrayal. In that discussion, I went as far as to say that, for me, blood will not trump infidelity and that if they ever betrayed their spouse/committed partner with someone else, they will be cut off and disinherited (we have a trust for our kids and grands). I discussed all alternatives when they have relationship challenges, what to do when they entertain thoughts of betraying their spouse/SO and what to do when they are flirted with/hit on. So, it wasnt all warning. They were pretty wide eyed when I laid it out but receptive and asked a lot of great questions.
I have recently been rethinking my strong approach. I hope I never ever have to enact this maxim, but it is a core conviction.
What are your thoughts? What have you communicated to your adult kids? I invite your feedback.
27 comments posted: Tuesday, September 12th, 2023
