SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

This is troubling. It feels like admins who are pro-R are now playing this game of gotcha w those of us who feel differently. Maybe I don't belong here.

I am the only admin that has posted on this thread so I feel this needs to be addressed.

There has been a mod and a couple of guides that have posted as well, however the person that pointed out the edit not even on staff anymore. As she pointed out, the information she has is available to any Platinum member.

I’m sure you view me as pro-R. I do indeed feel R can possible under the right circumstances. I also feel that D is a valid response to infidelity. Those two things are not mutually exclusive.

I actually tried to stay away from this thread to let you say your peace. The problem is, it’s my words that have been twisted. It’s difficult to stay away when the results are insulting such as being cast as unremorseful, gaslighting, minimizing, and rugsweeping. My husband being cast as weak, rugsweeping, and basically fooling himself.

I have said before, I’ll say it again…I have no intention of trying to change your mind. All I ask is that you have respect for the person posting and their decision whether it be R or D.

Tone matters.

There is a big difference between offering advice and beating someone down. I personally cringe and chances are you will hear from me if I see you tell someone to "grow some balls" or some version of that. I feel like that is kicking someone while they are down. We can help people take care of themselves while getting through the trauma.

I feel that SI has a variety of voices and that is pretty awesome. We are not looking to get rid of certain ones vs others for some agenda. All we are looking for is to show empathy and respect for whatever choice a person wants to make regarding their personal situation.

I hold firm in my belief that one of the barriers you have is never having experienced R and its unique process over D. You see this as black and white and R has whole lot of gray. It’s not better or worse, just different. You don’t have to agree. That’s ok. You just have to realize that there will be people here on SI that choose R as their path and that’s also ok.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:18 PM, Friday, December 22nd]

I'm all aboard the train heading to "BS's have to heal themselves land." Seems to me that this is case whether one chooses D or R. But if a couple chooses to attempt R, would the WS's efforts in the BS healing department not factor heavily into the chances of a successful rebuilding of the relationship?

I think the glass shard analogy from a little while back is apt. It's true that I don't love the glass, but someone I do love was the one who lodged it squarely in my back.

Now I'm getting up there in years, and my flexibility isn't what it used to be. But hey, there are such things as yoga class, and if I work hard enough over the next 2-5 years I can be limber enough to reach back there and pull that fucker out. And once healed, I might be able to celebrate my newfound powers by joining the Cirque du Soleil. I'm not sure though, that my stabby spouse would be around to celebrate with me if their hands sat idly by while I was awkwardly and painfully trying to reach a piece of freaking glass. I mean, would coming to yoga class and cheering me on count as much as just pulling the damn glass out?

I don't know. I guess all I'm saying is that I would be irrecoverably pissed if my WS said, "No one can heal you but you. You're on your own there buddy." Even if it's 100% true. If they then added, "but I will do everything in my power to help you do just that," maybe we'd have a chance.

I think waywards have a definite role to play in BS healing. Stop cheating for one. Transparency for two. 1000% effort to get underneath their own issues so they can lead authentic lives. Essentially, it is the WS job to become a safe partner. It is also their job to take full ownership of what they have done and that includes bearing witness to the betrayed's pain, offering empathy and support.

But betrayeds have their own work to do. I totally agree with Sisoon in that there is no way for a wayward to "make up" for it. The pain is real and ours to bear. It is then ours to heal. There are hundreds of ways to support our own healing. If we choose to deploy none of them and sit back expecting another person (the WS or anyone else) to make it all better then stuck is where we end up. Bitter too, I'd wager.

The full statement is that the BS heals themselves, the WS heals themselves, and the two together heal the marriage.

This is a big picture way of thinking. It should be said that the WS has an awful lot of heavy lifting to do early on and if the two are working towards R the WS healing themselves helps heal both the BS and the M.

I stick to what I wrote earlier.

I wrote what I wrote (and edited it out after an hour) on Monday. Then I was quoted for something else...yesterday, 72 hours after. And now people are saying that it was really about what I had up for an hour on Monday, 72 hours before. Schenanigans!

@sisoon If that post from Monday is what you were really referring to, why not just say so directly and ask me about it.

I stick to what I wrote earlier.

Which version?

@WOES:

The quote you are referring to is "WBFA I don't know why you think she trusted him. An affair is nothing like real life".

Here is the thing: If a newly wayward came on here and said something like "I don't know why my BS can't understand that the person cheating wasn't the real me" (yes a paraphrase but the sentiment sounds the same to me), then the WS would gently but firmly be set straight: 'No, the affair WAS the real you.' The WS has to own the fact that the affair WAS the real them. Likewise, a WS has to own the fact that they in fact *did* trust/love their AP, their actions said it all.

ETA in response to @SacredSoul's post below: Yes 'the affair was not real' and 'affairs are nothing like real life' are two different things. I think the context makes them all too similar in that they are both minimizing what happened. 'He didn't trust his AP as affairs aren't like real-life'--no in fact he DID trust his AP'. And last but not least, many WS do leave for their AP and some of those relationships last. As 'real', 'like real-life' as it gets!

In any event these type of words coming from a wayward who just joined, are par for the course. These words coming from someone who had done the work however, well they did sting more.

With that said I apologize if it sounded as if I was casting aspersions, I reacted too much emotionally to what you wrote and lashed out. I really should've expressed my take a lot more respectfully than I did, and I owe you an apology for that. I said it before already I am happy for you and your husband and I have no reason to believe that you and he did NOT do the work.

Meanwhile however I recall no BHs have said anything bad about my tone. A lot of people seem to actually AGREE with me. I will watch myself going forward a bit though.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 5:57 PM, Saturday, December 23rd]

The quote you are referring to is "WBFA I don't know why you think she trusted him. An affair is nothing like real life".

And that is WRONG. If a newly wayward came on here and said something like "I don't know why my BS can't understand that the person cheating wasn't the real me" (yes a paraphrase but the sentiment sounds the same to me), then the WS would gently but firmly be set straight: 'No, the affair WAS the real you.' The WS has to own the fact that the affair WAS the real them. Likewise, a WS has to own the fact that they in fact *did* trust/love their AP, their actions said it all.

There’s a big difference between the assertion that most affairs are "nothing like real life" and a WS saying "that was not the real me". Your response indicates that you don’t see the difference which might explain the disconnect.

Well look, I do edit my posts a lot. But I would never edit to cover my ass. Anyways:

1. If someone wants to disagree with someone else of course that is completely fine. I don't mind that some people don't like my posts. I respect that.

2. If someone wants to say "wait I saw that post from a few days ago that you edited" then of course that is also fine. I just can't write something on here and not be accountable for it edited out or not. It does seem dodgy to me when someone claims I said something and quotes something completely unrelated, and then *someone else* suddenly jumps into the thread goes and finds a post that I had edited. It feels like a tag-team.

3. If someone is claiming I edited to cover up when I did not (and time stamps corroborate this) then that is, as far as I can see, a foul.

That is the issue I have with this discussion.

@SacredSoul: True those are two different things. In fairness to WoES, she did not say affairs aren't real, she said they are not like real life. Two very different things indeed. BUT STILL...

1. I'd say the big (enormous) issue I had with what I quoted was with the 'WS didn't trust AP'. I spoke my peace about this several times on here already.

2. And...many (if not all) affairs ARE VERY MUCH real life, like real life, etc. My WP ended up in a marriage to AP that lasted **over a decade**. That isn't a one-off instance either. In the stories on here, many a WS ended up with their AP.

If you are the BS, you HAD BETTER BELIEVE that your WS is/was test-driving the AP to fully replace you. The "affairs are nothing like real-life" is all too often said by too many WS when the AP ends up disqualifying themselves ending their relationship w WS.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 4:32 PM, Saturday, December 23rd]

There’s a big difference between the assertion that most affairs are "nothing like real life" and a WS saying "that was not the real me". Your response indicates that you don’t see the difference which might explain the disconnect.

I appreciate this so much!

In fairness to WoES, she did not say affairs aren't real, she said they are not like real life. Two very different things indeed

I’m glad to see that we can agree on this anyway, sadly it has taken multiple pages to get here.

1. I'd say the big (enormous) issue I had with what I quoted was with the 'WS didn't trust AP'. I spoke my peace about this several times on here already.

When I think about the word trust, I believe there are different kinds of trust and trust can mean different things to different people.

There is confidence trust, competence trust, relationship trust, basic trust, authentic trust, organizational trust, self-trust, situational trust, and leadership trust.

I feel that trust in an affair is more situational than authentic or relationship. It’s often a trust that is not tested and when it is tends to fail.

I can see how it could appear to be more authentic but when put under a microscope (which is how the work is done) most will find how disingenuous the relationship was. Each person getting some sort of pay off. Obviously there are exceptions to this. Again, your experience shapes your own perspective on this.

I think a deep level of trust (relationship and authentic) takes a level of vulnerability and empathy that most WS are not capable of (at least during an affair). If they were, the chances of them engaging in affair in the first place would be much lower. I think it’s more likely that WS are untrusting and searching for someone to provide them with enough affirmation to be able to trust. That kind of affirmation can only last so long and when your bucket is bottomless that falls apart quite easily.

So yes, I can agree there is to some extent trust given to the AP, but what kind? Is it sustainable? I doubt it when the entire relationship is built from lies from the word go.

Poor judgement and decision making skills does not equal trust.

WBFA,

This is a little off topic from what has been discussed here, but what is your take on different types of affairs?

Not to generalize(but in reality, yes, that is EXACTLY what I'm doing here), but what about the married man that is looking to put notches in his belt? I can almost 100% guarantee you that if his wife finds out, the response is going to be that "I didn't really care for her. It was just sex."

That cheater's 'real' life is his wife and family. The strange on the side meant *nothing* to him. Is he deluding himself, or is that just reality?

So yes, I can agree there is to some extent trust given to the AP, but what kind? Is it sustainable? I doubt it when the entire relationship is built from lies from the word go.

Poor judgement and decision making skills does not equal trust.

I agree with you too on this, WOES, but I still have to believe that it's still real. Especially when we say that we have to hold ourselves accountable. I'm guessing that is because I am a huge believer in that we are a sum of our parts, and our tapestry defines us throughout our entire lives. We are exactly who we are at that point of our life, but obviously one moment of a lifetime does not define us in its entirety. Even someone who suffered a psychotic break at some point in their life is still that person at that time. They may not have been able to control such, but it's still who they were.

My father was an active alcoholic for years, a recovering alcoholic for the rest of his life, and the greatest man that I have ever met. All the same person.

I am a huge believer in that we are a sum of our parts, and our tapestry defines us throughout our entire lives. We are exactly who we are at that point of our life, but obviously one moment of a lifetime does not define us in its entirety. Even someone who suffered a psychotic break at some point in their life is still that person at that time. They may not have been able to control such, but it's still who they were.

I agree with you too!

When I think about the word trust, I believe there are different kinds of trust and trust can mean different things to different people.

There is confidence trust, competence trust, relationship trust, basic trust, authentic trust, organizational trust, self-trust, situational trust, and leadership trust.

So 9 types of trust and counting? I am sorry but this makes my head hurt.

A WS TRUSTED THEIR AP. PLAIN AND SIMPLE AS THAT.

I've already said my piece, and I am aware that grace has been extended to me by Moderation on here (thankyou), so Imma gona leave it at that.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 9:48 PM, Thursday, December 28th]

Re: trust

My WW trusted AP enough to:

1. Tell him about our marriage.
2. Share my health issues.
3. Complain about how I listen (or don't)
4. Bring him to our house.
5. Bring him to meet and insult me.
6. Drive him to work.
7. Visit him in another city.
8. Put her career development in his hands
9. Sexually gratify him.
10. Deceive me to keep him the priority.

And that's just what I have confirmed.

That is a lot of trust. I think that even half that list would require a lot of investment to earn in most relationships.

Of course the ws trusted their AP.

After dday,many ws become desperate to keep their BS. Their family. If you're lucky, you get a ws who is empathetic, remorseful, and doing what needs to be done to help heal the damage they've caused. There's a ton of work they have to do. And,if they love their BS,and don't want to lose them, they will do that work. Any BS who has been in true, solid R,knows their ws basically moved mountains.

They allowed another person the complete power to blow up the life they are so desperate to keep after dday.

Because they trusted that person not to tell anyone. They trusted their AP to delete all texts,messages,and pics. They trusted the AP not to tell anyone about their feelings for them. They trusted them,often, in the work place,not to blow up their job.

They absolutely trusted the AP.

[This message edited by HellFire at 11:27 PM, Thursday, December 28th]

Hellfire, I’d argue that the trust they had with AP to not blow up their life in some cases wasn’t trust, but fear . If they kept the affair going, kept the AP happy, the secret stayed safe. If one were to be spurned they’d risk a bunny boiler. 🤷‍♀️

Because they trusted that person not to tell anyone. They trusted their AP to delete all texts,messages,and pics. They trusted the AP not to tell anyone about their feelings for them. They trusted them,often, in the work place,not to blow up their job.

They absolutely trusted the AP.

I believe this to be true.

I’d argue that the trust they had with AP to not blow up their life in some cases wasn’t trust, but fear . If they kept the affair going, kept the AP happy, the secret stayed safe.

I also believe this to be true.

Funny how they can trust, and also distrust, simultaneously. Crazy thinkin'.

the trust they had with AP to not blow up their life in some cases wasn’t trust, but fear . If they kept the affair going, kept the AP happy, the secret stayed safe.

The affair didn't start as fear. They didn't cross line,after line,before they reached fear. They trusted the AP with the secret that could blow up their life.

It may have ended with fear, but it started as trust.

My wife trusted POSOM. She had an absurd trust for him, frankly, one that made no sense but resulted in her trusting him to not get her pregnant, to not tell me, to not abuse our children that she brought to him and put in private communication with. There was absolutely a stupid, naive, irrational trust in my wife’s affair.

I think my wife trusts human beings in general, but any specific person that she has a long enough relationship with to experience hurt, she is too conflict avoidant to clear the hurt and she loses the trust to resentment. So POSOM enjoyed the trust of a blank slate, while I was not trusted because of resentment for a lifetime of hurts never truly forgiven.