SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

"They trusted the AP with the secret that could blow up their life.

It may have ended with fear, but it started as trust."

A fear that might keep a person in an affair: that's just a fear of consequences. Consequences that are only due because of decisions originally made in complete free will and probably trust.

At any point that fear can be stripped of it's power by coming clean and stopping the potential blowback and the shame from growing worse. I have sympathy for how much it sucks to reap what you *know* you've sown, but that's the toll that must be paid to get the wayward off that track and headed to a new destination.

Soft language around this stuff let's them mentally off the hook and that doesn't serve to encourage real change, IMO. There, circled back to the original topic.😏

The affair didn't start as fear. They didn't cross line,after line,before they reached fear. They trusted the AP with the secret that could blow up their life.

It may have ended with fear, but it started as trust.

Damn, HellFire is good.

My husband’s affair didn’t start with trust either. It started with selfishness and stupidity. He never trusted her nor she, him. It was two broken A-holes soothing the pain inside them in most hurtful, unhealthy way they could. He didn’t trust her anymore than an alcoholic "trusts" a bottle of beer. It was a drug of choice. This isn’t letting him off the hook. His actions were reprehensible. Maybe some affairs do have trust, but the one my husband conducted did not.

Posting as a member.

My BIL, who has since passed, didn’t trust his AP either. He deliberately chose to have an A with a married woman because it was safer. Because his AP was married he believed she would be more careful than a single AP to keep the A secret and not expose the A. Did he trust his AP. Nah! He relied on the fact his AP was married. He knew she was dishonest and cheating just like him. Two broken people using each other for their own selfish ends.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 3:52 PM, Friday, December 29th]

Affairs are "real"...

They just take place in fantasyland.
They happen in this imaginary, idyllic, dream world. This world is often created as a fairy tale in the mind of the wayward.

I may sound offensive here but....
What we must accept about wayward spouses is that they are often stupid and always liars...and the person they lie to best is themselves.

In this fantasyland, they can always present themselves as beautiful, flawless, always having their shit together. Then they find this other asshole, who can present themselves as pristine, perfect and completely on point and basically blow smoke up each other's ass in a ballroom dance of dopamine and oxytocin.

They don't see each other when they are stressed about bills and kids.
They are not together when they fart, or blow up the bathroom and have it smelling like a cow pasture.
They don't have to be together and have the tough conversations that resolve long standing issues between a couple.
They don't have to practice tons of forgiveness and let go of resentments.
You know...the hard work of an adult relationship.

They live in this fantasyland, were they are always looking good, makeup flawless, outfits on point, haircut perfect.
They live in this fantasyland, were they see each other as amazing, unblemished 10s that anyone would love to have.

In fantasyland, they get to see themselves as this great superstar that the world would think as this great catch and since they have been chosen by this other great catch that is the AP and this perfect person sees them as perfect, all is right in the world.

Of course this is where the stupidity on top of the lies jump completely off the cliff.

No the wayward wife is not some sexual goddess that is desirable by all men and just so happened to chose this adoring man.
No the wayward husband is not some People Magazine Sexist man in the world candidate that just so happened to run across this beautiful girl who lusts after him.

These are the pitiful delusions of broken liars who are just stupid enough to believe that Narnia, or Oz, or Wonderland can exist for them, all the while having spouses who love them with all their flaws who remain living in the real world.

It is kind of sad and pathetic when you really think about it.

Wayward spouses most times are not looking to BE WITH someone else....
They are much more looking to BE someone else.

In "reality" love and trust are tools used by the WS against those they profess to care for.

TrayDee,

You nailed it! Only, my husband always knew it was an escape, fantasy, bullshit that was not reality nor would be. It was literally like getting drunk. It may be fun, your inhibitions are down, your worries and stressors are put on the shelf, and you just have a good time. But, most people don’t want to live a life always drunk and the hangovers suck. That’s why the "she could have been anybody" statement is true. Anyone willing was what he accepted. I guess when I say there was no reality to it he’d have never mentioned her as anything important in his life. He didnt put much thought into her after a quick FUXX. She was just a bar he frequented. DDay shut down the bar and he couldn’t have cared less about her or her feelings. His feelings for her then were as non existent as they’d always been. So he "really" did those things with her, but there was no "reality" of trust or love to the transaction. I think we all define reality a bit differently and affairs can be quite different. My husband’s affairs were more like a sex addict, but with the same woman as she was free and he suspected free of STD’s. She was also 400 pounds (true story) so he didn’t think she got a lot of other action. 🤷‍♀️ I’ll add that I dont think anyone who sees their spouses cheating as "not real" thinks it’s somehow better or the cheater less of an ass. It’s just how some of us view cheating and some affairs. .

Traydee
Your description of affairs is one of the best I’ve heard yet. Everything you wrote is absolutely on point! I wonder if the waywards know and believe their affairs were indeed the fantasy as you described it.

He deliberately chose to have an A with a married woman because it was safer. Because his AP was married he believed she would be more careful than a single AP to keep the A secret and not expose the A.

He trusted that she would be more careful.

I stand by what I said. If a person has an affair,and they don't want to lose their BS, they choose some low hanging fruit,and trust that they will keep it a secret..for whatever reason.

Ymmv

[This message edited by HellFire at 1:16 PM, Saturday, December 30th]

And last but not least, many WS do indeed leave for their APs. So the bromide on here that an affair is nothing like real life, it's just smoke and mirrors, well....that's just Not True.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 2:32 PM, Saturday, December 30th]

Posting as a member:

Hellfire, I do agree for my BIL, at least, he did choose the low hanging fruit for his A. And I get your point that he "trusted" her to keep the A secret. My point was that he did not see her as trustworthy in the least. He relied on the fact that she was married and feared exposure just like he did to keep the A underground. To me it is not the same as the trust we extend to a friend, confidante, or partner to keep a secret because of their integrity and honor. As he talked about the A years later he knew she had no integrity. She was deceitful and lying to her BS just like he was.

As to whether a WS was in a real life relationship or was it an escape or a fantasy, I have no idea, since I have no experience as a WS. I think you can probably find examples of both. I could render an opinion but it wouldn’t be worth much given I have never been a WS. I do know that over the years reading on this site and in my own personal life, many former WS have shared that while in their A, it was not real life, that it was a fantasy. I believe those who come forward to share their own life experience. How silly would it be for me to tell someone I know their life experience better than they do.

They don't see each other when they are stressed about bills and kids.
They are not together when they fart, or blow up the bathroom and have it smelling like a cow pasture.
They don't have to be together and have the tough conversations that resolve long standing issues between a couple.
They don't have to practice tons of forgiveness and let go of resentments.
You know...the hard work of an adult relationship.

They do when the WS leaves the BS for the AP once infidelity is exposed. This was was my story five years ago. Gently, perhaps this is what it takes for some waywards to reassess, to evaluate the values from both relationships (love, trust, comfort, care, sex, familiarity, companionship, family members, ego stroking etc.) and come to a decision whether to live with the AP, return to the betrayed partner or some other option they may have in their minds.

My husband chose to return for various reasons. It was his call to make not mine, I was moving ahead with my own life without him. And I chose to give him the second chance for my own reasons.

My hubby never said nor implied, that what he did during the affair nor his life living with his AP, was not real, or was a fantasy etc.

Caution: Had he said that to me at any point after discovery and abandonment, I would not have given him the second chance.

I think we are talking in circles here as affairs can all be different, with different feelings(or lack thereof), different motivations, and different outcomes. We also seem to differ as to what "trust" really means in a relationship. I trust a waitress will get my order correct. That in no way means I trust her with anything special or meaningful. My husband trusted his AP would keep his secret as she got what she wanted too. A man may "trust" a prostitute as long as he pays her as she doesn’t want to get arrested. I guess by the "true" definition of trust then cheaters do trust their AP. However, it’s not any sort of trust that I am jealous of and this was one of the few things about my husband’s affair that actually made me laugh. 🤷‍♀️

Wayward spouses most times are not looking to BE WITH someone else....

They are much more looking to BE someone else.

+1

There’s a short story by Jorge Luis Borges, Everything and Nothing, that ends with this paragraph, popped into my head reading your post. Google to find the full thing.

The story goes that, before or after he died, he found himself before God and he said: “I, who have been so many men in vain, want to be one man: myself.” The voice of God replied from a whirlwind: “Neither am I one self; I dreamed the world as you dreamed your work, my Shakespeare, and among the shapes of my dream are you, who, like me, are many persons—and none.”

[This message edited by HouseOfPlane at 5:33 PM, Saturday, December 30th]

** Not posting as staff**

And last but not least, many WS do indeed leave for their APs. So the bromide on here that an affair is nothing like real life, it's just smoke and mirrors, well....that's just Not True.

Per WebMD, about 5%-7% of affairs are followed by the aps marrying each other, and 75% of those Ms end in D. I think it's fair to conclude that your example demonstrates that the reality of M is much different from the fantasy of the A.

That's not the only conclusion that can be drawn, but it looks like the most obvious one, IMO.

You've said that your XWSo quickly left you for her ap. I take it that you have little to no insight into her frame of mind. With that experience you have judged the WSes who have commented on your posts to be less than honest with themselves or us. Frankly, I think you see dishonesty based on pain, given that the WSes you mistrust have long histories of posts that indicate honesty.

Statements like 'ILYBINILWY' or 'I loved you while in the A' clearly show the WS is at least partly in fantasy-land, because affairs are not demonstrations of love for the BS. Any WS who begs for R is clearly at least partly in fantasy, because it took so lone to dawn on them that they may get dumped because they cheated. Professions of love for the ap are fantasies for most WSes, if only because WSes are simply not fully capable of showing love.

And any BS who was ever surprised by their WS's A is probably a victim of fantasy, too - the fantasy that their WS wouldn't cheat.

What's real for one may be fantasy for someone else. My W's A was real for me, as was your WSo's for you. But I can't understand how anyone can deny that As have large elements of fantasy, too.

*****

Trust between aps? WSes have shown themselves not to be trustworthy. Of what value is 'trust' given by someone who can't be trusted? Does an A in which the WS doesn't trust the ap hurt the BS significantly less?

I can understand being especially hurt by one's WS trusting the ap, but As are traumatic for BSes no matter what the details may be.

*****

And again, what makes the assertion that As are fantasies infuriating? What's the source of the anger?

[This message edited by SI Staff at 6:39 PM, Saturday, December 30th]

My wife used the line "it wasn’t real" the other day. What she meant and did help clarify was that the emotional intimacy that fueled the sex was based off lies. I think this thread helped me be prepared to hear that and not get incredibly pissed. Not sure if that was the goal for you, but I’ll still say thanks WBFA

Well I am happy you found this discussion useful @InkHulk, but I stand what I said earlier about "it wasn't real" being minimization. In any event though Happy New Year!.

Sorry InkHulk my post was a little flat, in a contemplative mood to start the New Year. I'll be back to my old combative self soon enough here right after New Year!

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 9:36 PM, Monday, January 1st]

…but I stand what I said earlier about "it wasn't real" being minimization.

I was reading an article from the NYTimes this morning, and this was the opening sentence.

My exact words to him on our first date were: "I’m not looking to integrate anyone into my life. I’m looking to escape my life."

She isn’t cheating, but it’s the same idea.

Sorry InkHulk my post was a little flat, in a contemplative mood to start the New Year. I'll be back to my old combative self soon enough here right after New Year!

Everyone deserves an off day

Happy New Year to you as well, and to everyone.