SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

This is a phrase I hear and read so often and it’s bloody hard to get past.

I’m not sure it even matters really because once one has an affair I guess they will always have that title of ‘cheater’, in that relationship anyways.

But do you think that there are cheaters out there that honestly do it once and realise how bad they fucked up and never do it again. If you listen and believe my WH there is no chance he will ever do it again. He states that he honestly didn’t think about what he had to lose but when that was going to be his reality it really hit home and scared the absolute shit out of him. He has done other work as well eg recognising character flaws and trying to sort through those.

Anyways just a question I ponder often as that good old saying is always pushed in your face if infidelity is ever mentioned!

I think there are serial cheaters, and people that slip into an affair.

The people that go looking for it, I believe are not really redeemable.

The people that "happen" into it still make a series of incredibly selfish and damaging choices, but I think they are able to become a safe partner.

That saying, and this one:

"Adultery is only hard the first time."

If your saying is true, it’s likely because mine is.

There seem to be a lot of studies finding that someone who has cheated is much more likely to cheat than someone who never has.

I’m pretty cynical about most "pop" psychology studies.

To avoid cheating again, a cheater must improve their character: better boundaries, develop empathy, take morals seriously, etc.

All of that is hard to do.

But, no doubt, some do. The stories on this site and others suggest they are a minority.

Ugh, I hate this saying so much. I used to say it so casually in conversations before … hell, I would talk shit about people who chose to stay and I would personally give them a guarantee it would happen to them again if they didn’t leave. Obviously, a hard lesson I’ve had to learn is that you don’t know until you’re personally in that situation.

I think that there are "classifications" of cheaters (although I’m not sure of the exact categories I would use). I think there are many factors that come into play for people who have 1 A vs. those that chose to have multiple and then there are those A’s that fall in between these extremes.

In my situation my H’s mental state was very fragile and he didn’t have the emotional intelligence to say "hey, I’m super fucked up right now, I’m crumbling, I’m not ok and am extremely vulnerable …" One of the reasons why I was able to "accept" what happened is because there was no A fog
and it was an instantaneous reality check for him. He has worked hard to change in all areas of his life, he’s pinpointed his whys, his faults, etc … I wholeheartedly believe he would never cheat on me again … HOWEVER, I know what he’s capable of and for that reason I will never say never.

There are so many variables in the circumstances of every instance of infidelity, from.childhood experiences to basic character traits and everything inbetween that it becomes hard to make an all encompassing assessment of the proposition that once you've cheated you're much more likely to repeat the experience. Conicidentally, I recently read two articles both from a UK based female therapist whose practice specializes in infidelity which made two startling assertions: Firstly, from interactions with her female patients, she has concluded that women cheat at a much higher rate than men, claiming that at some point in their marriages a preponderance of women will cheat. She also counsels male patients to not forgive a cheating wife, but leave the marriage/relationship, because if they enjoyed the affair they will want to reclaim those highs by repeating the experience and they will.lose respect for you if you forgive them...
I think that there's certainly a very strong drive to cheat again and again if the infidelity has not been discovered, or given tacit approval by failing to confront when clues and behavioural changes indicating an active affair start to build a clear picture that something is going on.
My wife had several affairs over a three decade period. I felt confident that there was some clandestine affair activity in progress at various points in our marriagen,but due to the care and effort my wife put into concealing it, I was never able to obtain conclusive proof and when I finally confronted her she sneakily took it deeper underground.
And as a side note, if your spouse out of the blues begins to treat you with scorn, contempt and disdain...you can never please him/her or do anything right, odds are they're committing adultery.

I have known both.

I generally think the chances of recurring is probably higher than not, especially if not caught/confessed.

But as a blanket statement, I do not think it’s true. I don’t know the stats, but there are plenty who do not do it again, and plenty that do. It will take a long time and sustained effort for your husband to build your trust. I think at a year out it’s generally an unknown.

I think having the reason of learning what you have to lose is a good start, but there needs to be more put to that over time. Personally, I would not want to lose my husband, but I think the driving force of my not doing it has more to do with me and who I want to be. But I would have said the loss and pain thing about a year out.

[This message edited by hikingout at 10:00 PM, Monday, February 10th]

But do you think that there are cheaters out there that honestly do it once and realise how bad they fucked up and never do it again.

Yes. We all know and love hikingout. And BSR. And other helpful SI members who are so generous in answering BS questions and helping new WSs. And, well, me. I had an EA and I will never do THAT again.

Also, my H. By definition, he's a serial cheater. We had one DDay where he confessed to three As. Once we began R, he was all in and I've not had reason to suspect that he ever strayed again. It's been 20 years. He doesn't just say that he'll never hurt me again, he says he'll never do that to himself again. I find that reassuring.

I do think that there's a difference between a WS who gets caught, and one who confesses because they can't stand themselves and can't stand carrying the secrets anymore. Or one who trickle-truths and remains stagnant, and one who answers the hard questions and actively takes steps to heal themselves and help their BS. The former isn't trustworthy. I would say that if it seems like your WS is scared shitless of losing you, seems like he gets it, and is consistently taking action, that's a good sign.

This is fine,

Don’t they all go looking for it?

If it’s going down to the bar in the hotel, flirting with a coworker, etc., they know where it leads.

And even if it begins innocently enough, there is a point at which it stops being innocent, and they know what is coming. Even if it’s only when they are in the elevator together, they could still say, "This is a bad idea."

But they don’t. They want it. At some point, when it could still be stopped, they are looking for it. I just can’t find any way around that.

For context, I cheated, was not caught and ended the A on my own.

I ended my A in 2016. The path from that through all of the self hatred, peeling back all the layers and brutal honesty with myself were some of the worst years of my life. I had built this facade where I thought I was above an affair. In fact I used to sneer at those who cheated. And then I became one. It was very sobering to learn that I was one big frigging lie.

I can say without hesitation that I would rather die than go through that again. The thought of cheating continues to fill me with utter revulsion. I truly know what I have and would never risk losing it again.

I agree with formerpeopleperson to a point. No matter how an affair starts - at some point both parties know where it is heading. I pointed this out to my husband - it wasn't a mistake and he wanted it and knew exactly what he was doing. His reply surprised me. He stated:

"Of course I liked it and wanted it. No one held a gun to my head - I wouldn't have done it if I didn't want it. The point you are missing is I wanted it due to the person I was at that time. I was looking for an easy fix to emotional shit that I was unwilling to face head on. It was like putting a band aid on a gapping wound. I was good at justifying my actions and lying to myself. But, it's hard to continue to lie to yourself when reality smacks you in the face."

When reality hit and he couldn't lie to himself anymore or justify his actions he realized he would lose everything - me, the kids, friends and extended family - he knew he had to finally face the man he had become. He has told me repeatedly that the shame and remorse he felt when he thinks what he did to those he loves - and the disgust he feels for that man that could do what he did erases any good feelings he had about the affair. He swears he never wants to be that person again.

We are 12 years post Dday and he has put his heart and soul into becoming a man of integrity.

I dislike generalizations - they only serve to support one point of view and ignores other valid ideas. I think that the generalization that "once a cheater always a cheater" is a matter of syntax. Does it mean once a person cheats they will cheat again or does it mean that if a person cheats it is unfortunately a part of their past?

I am ashamed to admit I cheated on my fist husband. That was nearly 45 years ago and I still think of that time and the person I had become with shame and disgust. My husband and I have been married 41 years and I have never considered cheating. Yes, i am a past cheater, but I can honestly say I will never cheat again.

Amen, Nanatwo.

The people that go looking for it, I believe are not really redeemable.

My H went looking for it. Twice. He’s redeemed.

I’m sure someone has a counter to my opinion, too.

OP: Just trust your gut. It knows. Listen to it.

I don’t believe in generalizations.

Alcoholics and addicts get free from their addictions. So do over eaters, over spenders, shop-a-holics etc.

If someone wants to change, they will.

Some people will cheat over and over again. They are so broken they view it as the answer to their happiness.

How sad.

I agree that there are some people who only cheat once and never do it again. The problem, because you can't read their mind, is you don't know which they are until it's too late. There are so very, very many who say and do all the right things until they don't.

There are folks around here who seem to have Rd with a cheater. I would personally never again take the risk. For me, there are too many people out there who haven't cheated for me to risk my safety on someone who has done it at least once. There's no guarantee a person who hasn't cheated won't and there's no guarantee a person who has cheated will do it again, but they have shown they are at least capable of it.

My narcissist husband is a serial cheater married for 46 years at least 3 As I’m aware of and I stayed in the marriage because we have a disabled child and couldn’t afford to support him alone.

I stayed for my family unit and grandchildren but I recommend leaving early in the marriage when you are younger and can meet someone that treats you with respect.

[This message edited by Citygirl1 at 9:21 PM, Tuesday, February 11th]

The phrase it's self is a cliche. I personally think it rings true with my beliefs. How I read it is, they will always be a cheater to you. Doesn't mean they will actively cheat again. They may, stats show someone who has cheated is twice as likely to cheat again then someone who never has. That being said we can't know the future.

It comes to what you personally think is forgivable behavior. I class infidelity as abuse. I really don't look at it any differently to beating your partner, I see these acts as morally aligned. This is why I think hatred of 'R' in the wild is so prevalent.

So I think telling someone 'once a cheater', is short hand for, get out while the getting's good. The past cannot be deleted. Some people truly think cheaters should always be divorced / broken up with always. Some people think no one should ever date people who have cheated in the past. Basically society should cast them out. It's an unrealistic stance but I get it.

Side note, I do wonder if society did take this incredibly hard stance on cheating and no one ever reconciled or dated a known cheat if it would help to reduce the instances. Does the existence of R actually keep cheaters around. If they knew it would 100 percent without doubt ruin their romantic future, would cheaters still exist? Who knows.

This is fine,

Don’t they all go looking for it?

If it’s going down to the bar in the hotel, flirting with a coworker, etc., they know where it leads.

And even if it begins innocently enough, there is a point at which it stops being innocent, and they know what is coming. Even if it’s only when they are in the elevator together, they could still say, "This is a bad idea."

But they don’t. They want it. At some point, when it could still be stopped, they are looking for it. I just can’t find any way around that.

Is making friends with a coworker looking for an affair?

I think some people genuinely start out just clicking and it does start with platonic intent, but it shifts sexual or romantic. Yes, they eventually know they are crossing a line. I'm not excusing the very intentional and wrong behavior of anyone that cheats.

I'm saying some people wake up with no specific AP in mind and think to themself, "I'm gonna go look for some strange and lie to my spouse about it."

Other cheaters go down the slippery slope well described in "Not Just Friends" where the original intent is not cheating, but it gets there by degrees, eventually crossing a red line.

I think a between the two, the second sort is more likely to be safe again.

Side note, I do wonder if society did take this incredibly hard stance on cheating and no one ever reconciled or dated a known cheat if it would help to reduce the instances. Does the existence of R actually keep cheaters around. If they knew it would 100 percent without doubt ruin their romantic future, would cheaters still exist? Who knows.

I do not think so. People who cheat do it mostly ignoring consequences of their actions. Many go into an affair always lying to themselves. "We are just friends, nothing inappropriate is happening" "I can handle a little flirting but I am not going to act on it". And what happens is they just keep justifying the next step until what they want outweighs logic or consequences. It becomes "my spouse won’t find out" or "I am done with the marriage anyway.

Perhaps we will test this hypothesis as the No fault divorces start to go away. Many red states are looking to get rid of them, which would mean adultery will become part of the equation for the divorce settlements. My prediction is that will not effect how many people cheat because in my opinion cheaters just deny any consequence will apply to them. Though, it doesn’t bother me much that legal consequences would become more prevalent. I think instead you will see less people become legally married, not because of the cheating, but because they become hard to reverse.

Generally, I think the early days after discovery most bs are in such shock/denial/bargaining they are not ready to end the marriage right at that moment in time. I think behaviors after the affair from the ws often can be the death knell or influence the bs to consider reconciliation. Continuing to lie, to see or talk to the ap, to minimize, blame shift, gaslight, all of these behaviors likely help guide the bs’s next steps.

And I think those who have reconciled do not lose the idea their spouse has cheated but trust has been rebuilt over time. There are many happy reconciled couples, many who just stay married due to other reasons but aren’t reconciled, and many who divorce. All are valid options given nuanced situations. Nothing is one size fits all.

I do not generally think my husband and I look at each other and think "cheater". I think we look at each other as we worked hard to rebuild ourselves and our relationship. I would compare it (very loosely) to staying married to someone who was once an alcoholic or a drug user. In my mind these people are abusive as well, even if not physically. Their disease at a minimum makes for horrible choices that affect family units and inflict emotional and other types of neglect.

You know they are capable of relapse, and that means that you know what the signs are, what the boundaries are, and you ensure that you can exit the marriage and be fine. However, you love them, they are currently healthy and as long as they remain that way you are happy to be together, it’s working.

Preserving a marriage after infidelity sometimes makes sense to people even if it’s not something you know will not work for you. There are many happily reconciled people even if you do not have them in your social group. In fact, I bet you know happily married people that you do not realize have had to deal with infidelity during some course of their marriage.

I do not think so. People who cheat do it mostly ignoring consequences of their actions. Many go into an affair always lying to themselves. "We are just friends, nothing inappropriate is happening" "I can handle a little flirting but I am not going to act on it". And what happens is they just keep justifying the next step until what they want outweighs logic or consequences. It becomes "my spouse won’t find out" or "I am done with the marriage anyway.

Perhaps we will test this hypothesis as the No fault divorces start to go away. Many red states are looking to get rid of them, which would mean adultery will become part of the equation for the divorce settlements. My prediction is that will not effect how many people cheat because in my opinion cheaters just deny any consequence will apply to them. Though, it doesn’t bother me much that legal consequences would become more prevalent. I think instead you will see less people become legally married, not because of the cheating, but because they become hard to reverse.

Entirely possible. I have no strong thoughts on it, suppose it's quite similar to the death penalty argument. I suppose that argument is far from concluded but have heard arguments along the lines of: 'states that have the death penalty don't have few instances of murders'. That is to say, similarly to what you're saying about cheaters, murders aren't thinking of consequences. That being said, that debates been ongoing for many years and it isn't clear to me which side is correct.

I do not generally think my husband and I look at each other and think "cheater". I think we look at each other as we worked hard to rebuild ourselves and our relationship.

Probably a big determining factor in if someone is suited to reconciliation I would imagine. Those of us who would always look at the other person this way wouldn't consider it.

I suppose this gets to the root of the post, given what you've said perhaps we can rephrase it: once a cheater always a cheater but to those capable of reconciliation you will not always look at them this way. (Though it still will be factually true)

In fact, I bet you know happily married people that you do not realize have had to deal with infidelity during some course of their marriage.

I truly hope not, wouldn't wish that on anyone. I personally doubt it in my own life but suppose you never know.

I can’t pretend to know the stats to back up the "once a cheater, always a cheater" theory.

I can tell you as a BS who lost 20 years of her life to a cheating (now ex) husband, I would be very, very hesitant to date someone who has been a cheater in the past.

It’s in my best interest to minimize the chances as much as possible to ever go through that kind of pain again.

This is fine,

Group 1 is (are?) morally deficient, but honest with themselves.

Group 2 perhaps have (has?) better morals, but at some point are lying to themselves.

Who is safer? Who is more readily repaired?

Who knows. Perhaps they’re all better avoided.

[This message edited by Formerpeopleperson at 5:31 PM, Wednesday, February 12th]