SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I don’t think that once a cheater always a cheater is true. I think it probably is in some cases, but not all. If it’s a lifetime habit, it will be true if it’s not dealt with with some serious consequences and therapy.

In the case of my EX, it was a one time thing that happened well into middle age. I don’t think she was looking for an affair, but rather a predator saw all the signs in her that she could be groomed to do what she did. He was an expert. I also don’t believe that if it wasn’t him it would have been someone else. This guy was cast in his part perfectly. Younger, good looking, cocky, and with no morals. She wasn’t going to have an affair with one of my friends or someone in our social circle. He was safe as there was no way in her mind that he was ever going to replace me.

For her the results of her actions were so devastating that she never would have done anything again. She went the whole other direction and cut out people like her trainer, any girls nights, or even yoga. I also think her weight gain might have been a defense mechanism to keep her safe from anyone who might hit on her.

I even think that if she didn’t get caught, by the end things were so bad for her she never would have risked her marriage again. But in the end it didn’t matter.

waitedwaytoolong

Given what you've gone through you always seems so astonishingly reasonable.

That being said, I actually think you are the prime example of why the expression is true. She was always a cheater to you. You couldn't see past it.

How much weight we talking?

It wasn’t so much a Cheater I saw, but someone who was defiled. I have said before that it were a one time stupid decision I think I could have gotten over it. Things would never be as good as they were, but I could have lived with it.

Before her affair you could have bounced a quarter on her stomach. After it wasn’t massive weight gain, probably 15 to 20 pounds but on her frame that was a lot. She also afterwards took less care of how she dressed and make up so she went from chic to sloppy.

I understand your perspective but if I might be so blunt, I do feel that this is your protection method that you subconsciously use to still seeing the good in her. Perhaps for the sake of your memories and ongoing aquantinceship.

Ultimately your ex wasn't a waif ingenue incapable of agency. She wasn't fully taken advantage on. She still had a choice.

You don't just fall into those sort of extremely filthy sex acts over and over again without any sort of will or want.

You may have saw her more as defiled but she was a cheat, defiled was probably just easier to swallow.

I have had many many discussions with wwTL.

I definitely think he saw her as defiled.

And as for the grooming. I do think for some people that is something that needs to be there to cross over into an affair. Let me explain- I was a meeker person back then, I would not have pursued a person to have an affair with. Yes, the capability needs to be there but for some of us it’s almost like it is a perfect storm of an existential crisis and the right opportunity.

I know I had the capability but without the emotional turmoil or the being carefully pursued, it never would have happened. I needed a lot of encouragement. The first time the ap tried to kiss me I ducked.

I made all the decisions, it doesn’t negate my participation but not all people who have an affair are out wantonly looking for sex. It’s whatever occurs in the grooming process where you are getting the other forms of validation that may be worth it enough for you to have the sex happen.

I'm in no way suggesting that his wife was looking to have an affair. I do of course see how things can fall into place.

With all that in mind, I think we are playing fast and loose with the term grooming. Define the line here between flirting/ courting and grooming. Everything the electrician did could align with how I may act at the start of a relationship. Perhaps context is missing.

To me, grooming removes agency. It's manipulation. It's not just flirting and indicating you would love to have sex with someone who then replicates this. Nothing I've read in the posts indicates agency was ever taken.

This may have come later if she was worried he would out her if things did not continue, though this is speculative too

You may have saw her more as defiled but she was a cheat, defiled was probably just easier to swallow.

She did cheat so was obviously a cheater, but back to the basis of the thread, I don’t think the cheater part was part of her DNA. I was with her married for 25 years and longer counting dating. She really was a genuinely good person. She gave so much to so many. She couldn’t hide a defect like this for so long.

After her affair I let my boundaries drop. I came close to crossing the line numerous times. Sitting al a bar at 1 in the morning when a women 20 years younger asking me to walk her to her room for what I knew was sex, the temptation was enormous. I can see how easy it would be to cheat.

Again, it wasn’t the cheating. She was just damaged goods. Mind you, if she had an injury or illness that caused the weight gain I could understand that. I would still love her even heavier. But it was directly caused by the cheating so it was hard for me to be understanding.

Dr.

You are thinking of grooming like an adult would a child. A child doesn’t have agency.

I had agency. I take full accountability over my decisions

Some people, especially serial cheaters (my ap was a serial cheater) have learned certain tactics, stories, methods in identifying someone who is emotionally vulnerable and using that to their advantage to know how to make them comfortable.

The ap in my circumstance was just peddling for sex. Yet, he knew enough to know that just presenting himself in that way there would have been no way in hell. Finding women who are willing to have no strings attached with married men, especially married ones is a numbers game. Sort of a needle in a haystack.

So instead, they hone in on someone who they know they can make the sale with. They just have to give the right pitches. For wwTL’s wife it was making her feel like she was an expert designer, and taking a lot of interest in her thoughts in a projects.

That doesn’t mean that I should have made the decisions I did. It doesn’t excuse anything I did. But for the affair to happen, it would require timing and knowing what he needed to be for me.

Someone having predatoryy behaviors and knows the ropes can have an impact on removing in g resistance. But I put myself in the position to have my resistors removed.

They are just good at knowing how to go about it.

I think plenty of people slowly get into an affair sort of like a boiling frog. My affair started fast and ended fast much like wwtl’s wife. That requires someone who knows how to go about it. I also had been like wwtl’s wife been in a decades long relationship and had never once considered an affair or even really notice other men in an attracted way. Certainly I could say a man was attractive but in a more removed way much like another man might understand he is attractive.

My ap was 20years older than me, it wasn’t a physical attraction. I am not saying I couldn’t have had an affair with someone else but I do think it would take a lot of boldness on the other persons behalf. That doesn’t remove my accountability, it’s just what the circumstances were.

[This message edited by hikingout at 9:54 PM, Wednesday, February 12th]

My own definition of grooming in the context of infidelity cuts both ways and yet is not entirely gender specific.By way of example, several decades ago, I worked in management at a large publishing house where one of the male members of the advertising ,team, A strikingly handsome man who was a recent newlywed came to me with an unusual complaint, namely that a low level female exec somewhat older was paying far too.much attention to him and that on that very morning she had come into his office, taken off her shoes while standing behind his chair as she gave him a back.massage and made some double sentences comments. I was glad to advise he go to HR.
In the case of the senior hospital surgical resident, a serial philanderer who approached my wife and with whom he initiated a long affair that persisted well.into his eighth year in private practice it was abundantly clear he had researched my wife, delved for vulnerabilities by talking with other ER nurses and made his move very skillfully knowing with a high level.of certainty that his.months of grooming, praise, advice and conversation would make my wife feel comfortable enough to reveal.more personal and private marital.confidences. only then did he pounce.
Nothing in the suave maneuvering of the AP excuses my wife's infidelity for which she bears full blame. She knows that I can never see her in the same light as before and there will always be that little speck of distrust. The price of admission to the cheating game is very high and you're never really done paying regardless of which side you find yourself on.

This is fine,

Group 1 is (are?) morally deficient, but honest with themselves.

Group 2 perhaps have (has?) better morals, but at some point are lying to themselves.

Who is safer? Who is more readily repaired?

Who knows. Perhaps they’re all better avoided.

I don't have anything to back it up but personal opinion. You know what they say about opinions.

I believe that the morally deficient people are not going to suddenly gain morals. I'm not saying group 1 is necessarily narcissistic or sociopathic, but they have a fundamental underlying selfishness that allows them to openly hurt their partner again and again for personal gain, forever.

I think the person capable of self-deception is able to look at their thought patterns and correct them after some reflection. They "never meant to hurt you" etc. I think this is almost part of the human condition of being imperfect against our ideal self. All of us know what we ought to do, and we never do all of it. We know what we ought not do, but we do it anyway because it feels good.

Is the difference between 1 and 2 a differences of degrees? Is the difference between 2 and a person who hasn't cheated a difference of degrees? I don't really know.

I just know what I have experienced, which is that my wife has corrected her mental framing and thought patterns around fidelity and I feel she is safe again.

I also believe she is a higher risk than a never cheater. But that doesn't mean the risk is unacceptable.

Nothing in the suave maneuvering of the AP excuses my wife's infidelity for which she bears full blame. She knows that I can never see her in the same light as before and there will always be that little speck of distrust. The price of admission to the cheating game is very high and you're never really done paying regardless of which side you find yourself on.

Yep, Agee. Doesn’t matter what the ap did or didn’t do, it’s almost like a cliff note for me. Knowing that’s what happened but that I was right there for it and eventually egging it on. But it doesn’t mean he wasn’t predatory. And it doesn’t mean that I wasn’t responsible.

This so fine,

Pretty sure my WW is a group 2, so I hope you’re right.

In my experience I can safely say that people will try anything to get what they want.

They will make comments to see if you are interested in an innocent friendship w/ the innocent "let’s meet for coffee" the first attempt to establish a relationship.

The interest is there. It becomes mutual. You are friends. Then it’s another comment. Implied sexual content - a "joke". Now there’s an emotional connection. And the affair has begun.

I saw this play out all too often. I had a work colleague I thought was a friend. And then he made a comment that was very inappropriate. I was so confused because I knew his wife and we were friends - as married couples and individuals.

Had I been a different person it could have become an affair. It’s a slippery slope. WaitedWayTooLong - I believe your wife was played by her AP in a number of ways. Sadly she took the bait and it ruined her life.

What I think adds to your story is the financial manipulation the AP tried to pull - with your wife as a party to the situation. That would be unforgivable to me as well.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 7:09 AM, Thursday, February 13th]

waitedwaytoolong

She did cheat so was obviously a cheater, but back to the basis of the thread, I don’t think the cheater part was part of her DNA. I was with her married for 25 years and longer counting dating. She really was a genuinely good person. She gave so much to so many. She couldn’t hide a defect like this for so long.

This is an interesting thought. I'm not sure. Suppose it comes down to if you believe everyone is capable of cheating in the right circumstances or not. I completely see the logic of this argument. I'm not wholly convinced though. I know myself and many others who have such a hardline beliefs against cheating that I believe we would never cheat. This is a hard argument to prove obviously. I can't put myself in every conceivable scenario throughout my entire life and on my death bed report back. I still can't bring myself to believe I would though. Looking at your case for example, you had the temptation but didn't go through with it. Why? You, more than most had every justification to cheat given what you'd gone through yet didn't.

So perhaps many more people are capable of cheating than do, maybe even the majority of people could. We can't know. Perhaps we don't see more instances of cheating as the circumstances have just never perfectly aligned but I still think it's got to be somewhat in your DNA to do it in the first place. Can entirely see this is just a personal opinion on my behalf though.

It wasn’t so much a Cheater I saw, but someone who was defiled. I have said before that it were a one time stupid decision I think I could have gotten over it. Things would never be as good as they were, but I could have lived with it.

A little bit of a side note, apologies, I'm slightly obsessed with your story here. What triggered me most in your case was the extreme level of humiliation and ego bruising nature of your wife's affair. Coupled with the fact you truly did think your wife was a good person but couldn't overcome the pain. I think of the sex acts. It being on your own bed. The vindictiveness of the AP. The pillow incident. The public humiliation surrounding the oral situation. Suppose these acts still happened but only over one encounter as opposed to a few weeks. Could you still over come that?

If all those acts were condensed into one encounter could that have been overcome? If so, It's alien to me. The facts these happened over several encounters as opposed to one would be irrelevant to me personally. Though, of course I'm aware we all have differing triggers.

hikingout

Perfectly explained. I suppose I simply defined grooming slightly differently to you. Given your explanation I can accept that. It does open me up to some doubts on the nature predatory skills that have been described. Seems as though such people would need a form of 6th sense unbeknown to me. An innate ability to find the sort of woman who will fall for their schtick. An ability to read someone subconsciously and tell them what they want to hear? Seems hard to believe. Suppose it's possible though. Is this what makes a good sales person?

That being said we've been aware of Casanova types throughout history who seems to have some sort of hypnotic powers when it comes to seducing woman. Perhaps this is just another form of these predatory skills. Prominent cases through history such as Rasputin who slept with all the powerful aristocracy wife's. Outside of the historic examples, I'm sure we all know someone in our personal lives who seems to have this power. Not necessarily the best looking person, you wouldn't even argue the funniest or most charming. Yet they seem to be able to talk a woman in to bed at a rate of knots. Are such people just predators or at the least using these same predatory skills?

[This message edited by DRSOOLERS at 8:57 AM, Thursday, February 13th]

Suppose it comes down to if you believe everyone is capable of cheating in the right circumstances or not.

I do not think all people are capable of cheating.

I think it’s just a gradient. There are highly principled people who would not betray themselves or others.

There are people like me who for the most part tried to do the right things in life but when faced with an existential crisis they allowed their values to shift because they didn’t have a strong relationship with them.

For me, the build up to this affair was long term: people pleasing to the place of martyrdom, avoidance of conflict and constructive communication. Upon the introduction of empty nest suddenly I realized I had no idea who the heck I was or what I wanted. I was exhausted and lost. I felt my husband was not an emotionally safe place to discuss emotional things with and I saw him as someone who just wanted me to keep doing what I am doing- which is everything that made our life run and just sit down and be quiet otherwise because we had a good life. (In hindsight, it would have been impossible for him to interpret me and had I been able understand myself it would have improved our communication. There are many things I could have done better to change this dynamic). I would consider my affair an exit affair, Without sorting out if I really wanted to leave or why.

When faced with letting go of this misery and being fun again, I took the easier path. That doesn’t mean there wasn’t a shit ton of work needed in my character, values, emotional maturity, and the way I conduct my life. Moving forward, there is honestly no way you would ever talk me into thinking an affair is a solution, instead it made all this misery much darker an deeper and I would tell you climbing out was like trying to get out of the depths of hell.

Most of the time people like me land here because they are truly looking for answers, which is why our ws population mostly consists of remorseful people. We have had some that were just unrepentant, but they never stayed long. We used to have far more activity and the numbers of women who I identified with at times were numerous.

By the way, I think bs who deal with their pain with an affair are likely more similar to me than you might guess, which may explain my adamance in our former thread. I truly think it will hurt them worse, because that is what I experienced.

Then you have people who maybe were once like me but don’t find their way out, they just keep repeating the process because it feels good and they like the escapism. Most of these people are serial cheaters until caught but still may be able to do the work. They were simply able to continue to lie to themselves because they were never facing any real consequence.

Then you have serial cheaters who don’t really have a conscience about it. It doesn’t matter how many times they are caught, it only pains them they were caught. There is no remorse and they just wait until the bs is comfortable again and go back out and do it. These people are likely true narcissists or possibly sex addicts, or some other thing that didn’t do it from being broken, they just do it because they want to and they can. This is where I believe once a cheater always a cheater originated, some people will never stop.

And there are hybrids and everything in between which is why I said it’s a gradient. I think there are lots of buckets, probably way more than what I listed here. I kind of think that’s what this is fine was pointing at there are just different types of cheaters.

Also, yes there are people who read others very well. I can read others pretty well. Often it comes from having an abusive parent, you learn to take the temperature of a person or a room because you grew up trained on it. The ap in my circumstance was a serial cheater who had a mother who sounded like a narcissistic abuser. He had to be pleasing to her to get by in life.

He simply had not been caught so he was a good compartmentalizer who justified his affairs with he loved his wife and enjoyed his companionship with her but had a narrative going about unmet needs thing. Having affairs and flirtations with women long enough he learned what worked. He learned some married women will cheat to have their emotional needs met and he could relate to that enough so he set out using that knowledge to learn the tactics that worked best. He was always on the prowl. In fact I knew him for years and even had that impression of him. You can perfect any art of you practice it long enough. He didn’t even remember he had used certain things on me in the past that I brushed off so part of me understood these were just tactics he used over and over, I simply was in a place where escapism was extremely appealing.

I imagine he may have gone on to become a repairer in his marriage but have no idea past the time I left my job. But at that time they had just done a vow renewal. I only know that because someone said something on a conference call about it when people were waiting for the call to start. Anyway, I don’t really think about all that day to day, I just pulled it out because I sincerely think people are complicated and they don’t all operate in the same way for the same reasons. I think barring some sort of defect such as narcissism or anything where they do not have a conscience, any cheater could potentially see the light, do the work, and become a safe partner. Some are simply not brave enough to face themselves. Admitting awful truths about yourself is not something someone with great fragility can do.

[This message edited by hikingout at 4:19 PM, Thursday, February 13th]

I think it’s just a gradient. There are highly principled people who would not betray themselves or others.

If only we had an ironclad system that could accurately identify such people! I'm fairly confident that my partner fits this mold, but given my past experiences, it's hard to be completely sure. She appears to be highly principled and, like me, despises infidelity. I truly hope that my previous experiences have sharpened my ability to recognize deeply principled people. If this relationship were to follow a similar path to my past, I would seriously consider retiring from the dating scene.

Most of the time people like me land here because they are truly looking for answers, which is why our ws population mostly consists of remorseful people. We have had some that were just unrepentant, but they never stayed long. We used to have far more activity and the numbers of women who I identified with at times were numerous.

However, I believe that communities like this can skew the perception of how many truly remorseful cheaters exist. I have significant doubts that the majority of individuals actually engage in the necessary self-reflection and work to be active members of this community. We often hear that infidelity is underreported, as many individuals simply get away with it. Communities like this emphasize the need for confession to move forward and grow together. This suggests that many might be happy their gamble paid off—or at least aren't remorseful enough to confess and improve the relationship. They cheated and got away with it. It is what it is.

In general, my interactions with wayward individuals in this community and on Reddit have been quite positive. They usually own up to their significant mistakes and express a desire to improve. Nevertheless, I still have reservations about the push for reconciliation, which might not always be appropriate or healthy. This is a story for another day, but it seems to be a common and accepted theme within the wayward community, and perhaps that warrants questioning. My impression is that we're examining a relatively small segment of cheaters who choose to engage in these communities. As for my ex—who is now living happily with her affair partner (my former friend) and their children—I seriously doubt she's riddled with guilt.

Returning to the original topic: the idea that "once a cheater, always a cheater" holds some truth in the sense that they have engaged in infidelity and cannot undo that action. However, the broader interpretation—that they will inevitably continue to cheat—is not necessarily accurate. A percentage of individuals may truly learn and grow through counseling and introspection, while others might simply never find themselves in similar circumstances again. Some may refrain from infidelity, not out of guilt, but due to the risks involved, even if they don't regret their previous choices.

The real challenge, as I mentioned earlier, lies in determining which category a person belongs to and understanding which group has the largest membership. Are most waywards genuinely riddled with guilt? I don't believe we can know for certain. Thus, this maxim serves as a warning to stay cautious.

Bear with me as I illustrate my point with a silly simile. I try to navigate life like someone watching a horror movie, shouting at the protagonists—very much like a scene from a Wayans Brothers film where you hear, "Don't go in there, you idiot!" If I found out that a love interest had previously cheated, I would immediately run the other way. Similar to how one should act if they are awaken in the night and note the cellar doors open and the light on. Do not go down there! Now is it possible the cellar will have magically filled with gold and I should wade in full steam ahead. Possible yes. Weighing up likelihoods, I'd still run the other way. I had a friend who dated a guy who treated her terribly and cheated on her. AS I'm sure we all a friend like this. Initially, she was swaddled in support and love, 'you don't deserve this' but when she chose to stay with him, the chorus of concern began to fade. After another incident, the support dwindled until it became a resigned, "What did you expect?" Consequently, if a friend were to start dating someone who had cheated on a previous partner, you might catch me saying, "Once a cheater…"

[This message edited by DRSOOLERS at 10:49 AM, Friday, February 14th]

Nevertheless, I still have reservations about the push for reconciliation, which might not always be appropriate or healthy. This is a story for another day, but it seems to be a common and accepted theme within the wayward community, and perhaps that warrants questioning. My impression is that we're examining a relatively small segment of cheaters who choose to engage in these communities. As for my ex—who is now living happily with her affair partner (my former friend) and their children—I seriously doubt she's riddled with guilt.

I am always fascinated when people say there is a push for reconciliation.

I do not have a preference if people reconcile or divorce. I have a preference for individual healing. The outcome of someone’s marriage is a personal choice, one that we can not sit behind a screen and pretend to understand the complexity of.

I think divorce, reconciliation, or staying married long enough for some other goal post to pass (getting kids raised, taking time to get finances in order, etc) are all viable and productive options.

In your thread about revenge affairs, the arguments I made were more targeting reasons not to do it if you think you want to reconcile because those are most of the arguments I have against it. While I still think it’s harmful to the bs to do it, if they are just going to divorce that is the only argument I have against it. So perhaps that mislead you to believe I had a preference. My preference always leans towards what is right and healing for anyone who comes here- whether they are ws or bs.

My personal observation after almost eight years of constant reading about infidelity experiences is it’s very rare for a bs to be decisive enough to choose divorce in the first 6 months to a year. They emerge from dday being confused, shocked, disoriented, and devastated. So when they land here we do our best to support them in whatever path they currently believe themselves to be on. Because if you push them too far in either direction all you are doing is alienating. They need some time for the individual healing to occur to feel more sure of their direction. We coach them on not taking any more shit, and to focus on themselves and what they want.

But I do not believe you would find anyone here who reconciled trying to push others to do so. Rather, if we have been successful at R and the poster is trying to do that, then we tell them how we got through certain stages that most bs go through. But the minute they say they want to divorce, we support them on that and you may see more people who have divorced come in and start coaching them through that.

In reality, I think there are many ws who will do the work, and many who will not. Whether there is a majority in either camp, we only have our opinions based on our personal experiences. I suspect the larger majority are ones who do not, but that the majority is not an overwhelming landslide. I also agree that this site in particular really only retains mostly the ones who want to do the work.

And I think more people who are trying to reconcile stay here longer while the ones who divorce drop off more quickly because they are. No longer trying to figure it out. I am not saying we don’t have lots of divorced bs here, I just think the forum is more active with those who have not yet decided and those who are trying. Perhaps that’s why we get this reputation of pushing reconciliation. I do not think we push all that much at all except to challenge a bs to see certain truths about how things are progressing.

[This message edited by hikingout at 2:42 PM, Friday, February 14th]

I appreciate your clarification regarding your observations on reconciliation. I just want to note I didn’t perceive a pronounced push for reconciliation from your end in our previous discussions. Rather, I felt that your stance has consistently reflected a balanced perspective. I genuinely believe that the viewpoint you’ve outlined is healthy and constructive—there’s nothing to criticize there.

However, my concern about what I refer to as a 'push for reconciliation' primarily pertains to the behavior of wayward partners, not necessarily towards reconciled couples in general. Although as a side note I've found certain forums, like R/AsOneAfterInfidelity, to be operated in a manner that seems quite unhealthy—almost cult-like in their environment. This is a topic worth exploring further because these groups often actively discourage dissenting opinions, particularly when the advice leans toward divorce as a viable option. It’s perplexing how these environments operate under the premise that divorce isn’t sometimes the healthier resolution for everyone involved. I would imagine you share my opinion that such platforms can be quite counterproductive, fostering an unrealistic narrative around reconciliation.

When I refer to wayward partners, I observe a tendency among many to only seek improvement or personal growth after they have been caught in their infidelity because they want to persist with the relationship. Their inquiries often center around questions such as, "How can I get my betrayed partner to forgive me?" or 'What can I do to stop them from divorcing me' rather than considering what is genuinely best for their own growth or for their partner’s healing process. This perspective can overlook the emotional complexity and vulnerability that those who have been betrayed experience. As you mentioned, it often takes time for the betrayed individuals to process their feelings and determine what is best for them. During this vulnerable period, they can be particularly susceptible to manipulation, and it raises concerns that the motivations of the wayward partner may echo the very mindset that contributed to the initial betrayal.

The above leads me to in all honesty be grateful that my ex did not beg for reconciliation and rahter monkey branched off with with my former friend. Knowing that I wouldn't want to reconcile but still being conflicted with all the emotions would have made things so much harder. Another reason why I find waitedwaytoolong story so traumatic. I genuinely think it's easier to move on that way.

I apologize if my references tend to lean heavily on Reddit as opposed to here; R/SupportForWaywards for example. I’ve only recently transitioned to this forum for more mature discussions.

[This message edited by DRSOOLERS at 3:35 PM, Friday, February 14th]

When I refer to wayward partners, I observe a tendency among many to only seek improvement or personal growth after they have been caught in their infidelity because they want to persist with the relationship. Their inquiries often center around questions such as, "How can I get my betrayed partner to forgive me?

Ohhhh yes. That is typically true.

I think it’s a natural stage just like the bs have a natural stage. The initial thinking (and this was mine too) if their spouse can forgive them they are redeemed.

It’s actually not helpful to either the bs or the ws for this to be the goal of their work. Because then they will manipulate that work to be what they think their partner wants to see.

I did this for sure. It wasn’t malicious, it was simply my framework of understanding through the lens of someone who was not self aware nor had ever done something like this to know how to proceed. I actually didn’t confess for two months after the affair ended because I wasn’t certain what to do or what I wanted or any of it. I confessed because at that point I decided I wanted to see if we could try to save the marriage and if we were going to do that it had to start out on honest footing.

The bs’s here definitely pushed me towards empathy, but I was mixing that up with trying to love and sex bomb him into seeing that I loved him.

But I had a lot to learn about love and the sex bombing placated him, it didn’t heal him. No one has the power to heal someone else. I figured out that it was my job to provide an environment in which it was possible to heal.

My turning point with this was when my husband. Asked me for a divorce ten months out. I didn’t want a divorce but as I have told you we sat down and came to an agreement. We went to in house separation in plans of selling our house and parting ways when that concluded.

Letting go of the outcome of the marriage, I could clearly see I still wanted to go through with the work. I wanted to grow from the experience and be a better person moving forward. So I continued despite our separation.

At some point, not much time later I came to him and just had this huge cathartic conversation. It started by meeting him at the airport with these balloons, which I look back on and cringe a little at why that was what I did.

But, There was no goal, no agenda, it was simply me coming to him to declare a truce and be very curious about his pain and to express my remorse to him. I wanted to hear him out on all he had been through and had written down questions because I knew unprompted it would be putting him in the spot. I came up with a lot of them based on Reading here.

And at some point the discussion turned to how I was seeing things, the loss I felt, the way I could clearly see I had betrayed myself as much as I had him. Again, no agenda. I didn’t expect a change of heart nor did I feel that I deserved one.

And by letting go of the outcome, it truly made me stop trying to see myself through his lens or anyone else’s. What was going to matter the most moving forward was how I saw myself. For some reason that convinced him to put the divorce on hold, but I wasn’t expecting that. I just felt like a lot was going unsaid and with the divorce looming we may not have that opportunity before long. Yes, I wished to have him back but I didn’t feel in control of that.

It’s normal to want to start with amends to the one you hurt. But it’s hollow for the bs until you walk the walk. I think it’s human nature for ws to want to start there as it is for the bs to not know what they want right away either.

[This message edited by hikingout at 5:49 PM, Friday, February 14th]

I agree. If only the other voices in this discussion echoed these thoughts. Alas in my experience, that is not the case. They quite often receive prescriptive advice on how to win back their partner.

That's life I suppose.