SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Do you think it’s possible to actively work towards a divorce while also being in marriage counseling and trying to reconcile?

What I’m starting to believe is that separating the two is not healthy, at least for my situation. My WW seems to not know what she wants to do in our marriage and "needs time to figure it out". While I’m more like, hey if you want a divorce just say so, otherwise let’s fix this.

It sounds like you’re going to need to know more. If your WW isn’t sure what she wants, that’s not a lot to work with.

R isn’t remotely possible without BOTH partners wanting to repair the pain and damage of infidelity.

Time to figure it out sounds like a form of justification, still blaming you or the M for her choices?

What do you want? Start from that. What your W wants is irrelevant until and unless you want R.

And if your W is lukewarm towards R, my reco would be to tell her she's all out of the M unless she gets to all in for R. R is hard work, and the work is too likely not to get done unless the partners are all in for R.

On your first thread, you ask if you're co-d. The more you write, the more confident that the answer is 'Yes.' You're going to have to change that to R. That's hard work, perhaps as difficult as the WS has to do. Are you willing to do it?

Start with figuring out what YOU want, even if it doesn't seem attainable. That's a big step out of infidelity and out of co-dependence.

We’re both in MC and IC.

I know what I want, reconciliation. She says she’s "committed to the marriage and does not want a divorce."

But we talk about the hopelessness that we both feel, daily. For every hour of happiness I feel, there’s usually 36 hours of unhappiness.

Last night was a rare moment where we seemed to be happy for about 2 hours. Now today it’s back to the grind. I don’t even know why it’s like this. From my point of view she just can’t seem to enjoy my company.

I don’t understand why she’s in this marriage. And I’m starting to wonder why I’m in it too. It’s so weird to know that when she seems happy I feel like everything is fine, and when she’s not attentive or distant, I feel like the whole thing is just being slow walked to death.

She says she’s "committed to the marriage and does not want a divorce."

Ok, she is "committed to the marriage". But is she committed to YOU? Does she love YOU? Screw the marriage. Would she live in a love relationship with YOU even without the legal benefits of marriage? Isn’t that what you really want to know? And if she is waffling, doesn’t that sort of answer your question?

I know it’s absurdly hard. It took my brain more than a year to catch up to reality, I was so deep in a natural stage of denial. I just encourage you to keep pushing yourself to look at hard truths and ask hard questions.

Today’s been a bad day.

Little communication.
Really feeling like divorce would be the best thing for both of us.

I want to fight for her. But it seems like she doesn’t want that. It seems like she’s shut down every connection with me.

I don’t want her to be miserable.

If y'all don't both really want to reconcile it won't work.

Take the reigns on divorce. Schedule consults with the three best in town. Get the lay off the land, and take them off the table for her because of conflict of interest.

People reconcile (I don’t really know what "reconcile" means, so let’s just say "stay with a spouse who betrayed them") for lots of reasons. Maybe it’s:

-children
-finances
-religion
-lifestyle
-shame and embarrassment
-etc.

And these may all be valid reasons; the parties just need to accept a less than complete relationship.

Ahh, but staying with a spouse who betrayed them, in the hope for, expectation of, or belief in the existence of, love; well, be ever so careful.

You see it on this site and others:

-my cheating spouse loves me, they were just weak and seduced by an evil AP; we can fix this
-my cheating spouse loves me, they just had childhood trauma issues; we can fix this
-my cheating spouse loves me; they stayed with their AP for years because they were addicted; we can fix this
-my cheating spouse loves me; they just had weak boundaries; we can fix this
-my cheating spouse loves me; they just needed affirmation/validation; we can fix this
-my cheating spouse loves me; it was just sex (or it wasn’t about sex); we can fix this

Some of these reeds being clutched might be very slender; be very, very careful.

Husbands cheat to stay; wives cheat to leave.

Read the "Women’s Infidelity: Living in Limbo" books by Michele Langley. You’ll think she was writing about your wife.

Husbands cheat to stay; wives cheat to leave.

I definitely believe my wife cheated to leave.

Why would a husband cheat to stay, wtf does that even mean?

People cheat for varied reasons — I wouldn’t buy into the aforementioned bumper sticker mentality.

My wife didn’t cheat to leave, she had every chance to go, with or without infidelity, both her and AP didn’t want to break up families, they just wanted their fantasy world without consequences.

That aside, it does take a minute to adjust to reality for any newly discovered WS, because as it turns out, there are consequences.

Is your wife at least seeing an IC?

Both my wife and I are seeing MC and IC.

Fun things my wife told me tonight:
1. I definitely should’ve left you multiple times over the last 22 years of our marriage.
2. I have nothing left to give you.
3. I feel like you’re going to divorce me because you can’t be patient and let me figure things out on my own timeline.

I told her tonight that I would continue to fight for her but she needs to be fighting for me too. Every week we take a 10 mile walk together and although there’s usually a lot of constructive conversation, the last 3 miles often ends with her being pissed off and not talking to me. It’s 3 miles of silence.

I really think she’s worried about the kids and the finances more than anything else. She’s not confused about those things. She knows she can’t afford the house by herself and she doesn’t want our younger kids to be impacted.

I told her they will also be impacted if we’re in a horrible marriage. Basically, I just keep telling her that if she’s bot happy we should just divorce and she keeps saying she needs more time to process shit. It’s really annoying because I don’t want a divorce anymore than I want to make her miserable, but it seems like that’s my only options.

Which is why I’m really leaning towards divorce.

I’m also starting to feel like I don’t want to sleep in the same bed with her. It feels like I need my own space to just not be the source of her misery.

"Time to figure it out," is code for cheat on the downlow. Continue getting your ducks in a row for divorce until she gets her head out of her fourth point of contact. If she does, and you still think she is soneone worth building a life together, cool. And if not, you're already mentally prepared for a divorce.
Put one foot in front of the other on your journey to getting out of infidelity. Either she'll catch up and stay caught up, or she won't. You can only control your actions.

don’t want a divorce anymore than I want to make her miserable, but it seems like that’s my only options.

I’m also starting to feel like I don’t want to sleep in the same bed with her. It feels like I need my own space to just not be the source of her misery.

I hear in these words the heart of a man who loves his wife. Probably more than himself. You are so concerned about her misery, and you don’t even mention your own. You are a fucking amazing human being and I wish we could be irl friends. Truly.

The shitty part is this is now working against you. You responded in my thread that my comment about valuing myself above the marriage in order to heal spoke to you. What I quoted is exactly what it looks like to not value yourself over the marriage. I suspect it’s going to rub against your very nature, but you are going to need to get more selfish.

You matter.

You. Fucking. Matter.

Her three statements to you are her utterly disregarding and disrespecting you. But you fucking matter. So don’t allow that. Please.

[This message edited by InkHulk at 5:57 AM, Sunday, January 12th]

I agree with Inkhulk.

[Quick thread jack & musing]
I sometimes wonder if all infidelity should = divorce. You could still reconcile and create a new relationship and marriage. But it’s an interesting concept. I think most everyone has agreed that infidelity = the death of the current marriage. That is followed by the corollary that it is up to you if you want to build a new marriage in its place. So if the marriage is dead, why not divorce? The rings are trashed, and anniversary is no longer celebrated. If reconciliation is achieved, re-marry with new rings and a new date. Celebrate that. It also gets people out of limbo and out of infidelity.

I know it’s not a popular notion, and people have strong feelings against it. Just an observation i’ve been kicking around. And it’s more or less a divergence from the underlying theme of the thread. Kids can complicate things but not always. I think it’s a fallacy that divorce will always have a negative impact on kids. Often times it’s the parents who don’t want 50/50 time, not that the kids wouldn’t mind it. There are many nuances to this and i didn’t mean to derail things. I respect all who disagree, and I know there are many haha.
[/Quick thread jack & musing]

I’m so sorry you are in this situation. I am also very sorry for your wife, the underling issues she has to create this situation and what it’s done to you and your family. But you really need to stop setting yourself on fire to keep her warm. I understand the reason, I’ve lived that reason. But it’s not healthy. It won’t help you or her.

If your wife needs time to figure things out, I recommend she takes that time as a single woman working on her own issues. I think you will feel so much better when you’re away from her. Sad yes, but you will actually start to heal. This is going to take years for you to heal from, and you will carry the scars for life. But I think you need to get away from her man, as much no contact with her as humanly possible. That’s my advice. I’m not saying it’s the only thing you can do, just what I’d recommend after reading all your posts.

I don’t think you will heal in her presence. She’s not safe enough, she doesn’t understand herself. Set yourself free man. That’s my advice. Doesn’t mean you two can’t make your way back together years down the road and actually build a marriage. Right now your married, but you don’t really have a marriage. I’m so very sorry.

[This message edited by justsendit at 11:25 AM, Sunday, January 12th]

I feel a need to append my post after reading your JFO thread. This isn’t intended to be judgmental, but to give some color after reading that.

I think what you described in your JFO thread (excessive gaming as escapism, anger outbursts) fall into "selfish" behavior. And that is not what I meant in my post. I think you already recognize those need to go, for everyone’s sake.
But there is a healthy selfishness. A putting on of your own mask before you try to help others. I think you are missing that healthy selfishness.
I think this is important to say because my wife, after the ultimate selfishness of a 3 year affair, came to the conclusion that she needed to be "more selfish". But she didn’t get the distinction between the good and bad kind. I hope you will, you seem very self aware.

Again, zero judgment here. You are brave to open yourself this way for feedback. Truly want the best for you.

Typical cheater behavior includes re-writing the marriage history. Her words "she should have left you……" is meant to justify her affair.

How do I know!? I heard the same exact crap from my H. How unhappy he is (not until he met the OW). How I’m not a good wife (doubt he’d find someone better). I’ve done XYZ (I’m not perfect and neither is he) but he was holding onto long resolved minor issues.

Honestly you are not reconciling and you are not even on a Reconciliation playing field.

1. She’s not all into the marriage. As others have pointed out, she’s "figuring it out" which really means she is staying married for as long as possible to get her finances in order.

2. Her actions don’t match her words. She acts completely opposite of what she says.

3. You have days of non communication and misery. She’s not showing evidence of working on anything but herself and her needs.

IMO I think she wants a D but doesn’t want to be the one to say so. This way she can point the finger and say "YOU wanted the D not me". This is done so the cheater can appear to have no guilt or blame on the marriage failing. The cheaters often act like they’ve done nothing wrong b/c they deserve to be happy. No matter what.

You hanging on and being miserable, waiting for HER to make a decision doesn’t help you.

My experience showed me I can sit around and wait for the cheater to make a decision goes- which keeps me in limbo and miserable — or I can do something about it.

Dday2 I did something about it. Funny how when I told my H I was D him b/c I had run out of options, he’s BEGGING me to R. At first I refused b/c I had run out of patience and love for him due to his continued lying and cheating.

We didn’t D b/c we were able to R. But we have a very different marriage now and I am no longer a doormat.

** Member to Member **

I agree that your W is not a good candidate for R at this time. She may become one, but I don't know if or when that might happen.

What are your reasons for wanting R? Examining them and separating the healthy from unhealthy reasons really helps make a good D/R/Gather-more-info decision.

I don’t really know what "reconcile" means, so let’s just say "stay with a spouse who betrayed them"....

You've never repaired anything?

There's a big difference between 'staying M' and 'Reconciling.' The 1st can't be done, IMO, without rug-sweeping. The 2nd requires the opposite - mindfully rebuilding the partners as individuals and together rebuilding a relationship. Sometimes a rebuilt M is stronger and more joyful than it ever was before the reconstruction.

I'm pretty sure I'd split rather than stay M without doing the work of R. I know I'd recommend splitting rather than stay in an unreconciled M.

Is something blocking you from understanding R?

I think it’s a fallacy that divorce will always have a negative impact on kids.

That proposition bothers me, since I've seen many kids of D grow up. My take is that D harms kids, but it harms them less than if the parents had stayed in a deeply troubled M.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 6:25 PM, Sunday, January 12th]

Have I repaired things? I have. Doesn’t always go well. Seldom as good as new. That’s why, for things "mission critical", I will often replace rather than repair.

From Webster, definitions of "reconcile":

1 a : to restore to friendship or harmony
//reconciled the factions
b : SETTLE, RESOLVE
//reconcile differences
2 : to make consistent or congruous
//reconcile an ideal with reality
3 : to cause to submit to or accept something unpleasant
//was reconciled to hardship

Perhaps some are reconciling to your definition, "repair", which is close to a couple of the definitions, above.

Others, I suspect (given my own experience), are reconciling to definition 3, "accepting something unpleasant."

A problem with these boards; if definitions aren’t consistent, we may be talking past each other.

@inkhulk

I think what you described in your JFO thread (excessive gaming as escapism, anger outbursts) fall into "selfish" behavior. And that is not what I meant in my post. I think you already recognize those need to go, for everyone’s sake.

For sure, I’m in IC for all of that. Haven’t played a video game in the last 3 months. The anger’s been under control as well, I’ve still had some minor outbursts, but I’m proud of where I’m at.

I’ve put 100% of my attention into my wife.

Your ability to WANT to do better as a spouse is exactly WHAT your wife SHOULD BE doing as a cheater.

You are reconciling.

She is sitting on the fence. She’s NOT reconciling.

Which means your marriage is in limbo as far as you can tell.

I hope this helps you see that your wife’s selfish actions don’t help you or your marriage. Her selfishness is lack of communication, her anger towards you, her lack of commitment to the marriage etc.