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We are working towards reconciliation….hes in 12 step and has consistently been seeing a therapist…I believe he’s "doing the work" maybe it’s slower than I’d like but self awareness takes time and healing take time. . Id love to to hear from others what healthy boundaries were set for reconciliation.
Relapse? (Porn)
Lying by omission?
Not practicing self care ?

What were "Yellow light" things and what were " red light " things and what were the boundaries/consequences set. I’m working in this for myself. I hope this makes sense- I think it will to those who have done this sort of work

Oversimplified - if you wouldn't want me doing it to/with someone [weather anyone knows or not] you shouldn't be doing it either.

In other words be a responsible monogamous adult.

I'm his wife. Not his parent, teacher, warden, or clergy. He's my husband - act like it.

At this stage of the game - there is no "yellow". You either good/"green" or red flag. Nothing in-between.

For me it was honesty. I stayed as long as she was honest with herself, with me, and with others. I expected myself to impose consequences if she was dishonest, but I was never tested by dishonesty, for which I am very grateful.

He came up with almost all of the actions voluntarily and organically:

Absolute honesty in everything. Physical and emotional closeness. We do many more things together and plan our time together instead of independently. Being there physically (when possible) and emotionally when I am triggered.

Before I knew the whole story He voluntarily went off all social media and deleted all accounts. I agree it needed to stay this way. He is off his phone when we are together.

He voluntarily stopped abusing porn before he confessed.

Early on I added No interactions with any women online or in person without me except for business clients and he is to ignore any social media connections with clients or potential clients so there is never any confusion that there is a personal relationship there.

We moved our home offices into a shared space and he only uses his original office downstairs (where all his secret acticity happened) for zoom meetings and the door stays open.

He is voluntarily crystal clear about where he is going and what he is doing - even within the home, and frequently (like every 1 - 2 hrs) comes to check in with me if I'm not working in our office.

We have also agreed that he will let me know of any relapses to porn use or even a temptation for innapropriate behviour.

Accountbility software is out (my decision as I am not going to police- if I felt I needed to he would be gone) we have also decided against 12 step programs and group support, but we are still debating IC.

Me finding out he has relapsed and used porn or contacted any women without him confessing immediately is a deal breaker and he will be leaving the home immediately.

I am not worried about him not keeping true to this for the immediate time as he is truly contrite and remorsefully, it's the future I worry about as we've been down this road before (except I didn't know abot the porn abuse) and eventually the boundaries eroded after about 6 years. This time though , i've made it clear to him he is gone if he cannot keep his boundaries rock solid.

Good question! I look forward to other responses. But I agree with Chaos, there should be no yellow. My WH has lied by omission, claiming he was trying to protect and not hurt me more. It hurt even MORE. Still trying to process this at almost 3 years post DD, but the last lie by omission (and me directly asking and him lying again… to protect me) was just this past April. Sad.

Possum-

I got this previously - the excuse to "not hurt me" as the reason whenever he lied, lied by ommission, half-truths or said I don't remember. Is now admitted to not really being to not hurt me but more about shame and not being able to face the truth himself.

I begged and begged for truth as the lies hurt as much as the actions. Even when he would say yes you are correct to something I asked, I asked him to say it, not just agree with what I figured out.

He finally figured it out that compete and total honesty in everything was the only way to save our marriagea and himself no matter how much the truth hurt us both. as he was on a path if self destruction blowing us up in the process. and voluntarily confessed to something I had no clue about. Now I believe him.

The boundary for me was my wife had to take the lead on wanting the M.

If she had to go on the road for work, she had to take the lead on keeping me in the loop of her schedule. In other words, I am not ever interested in being a parent figure for my wife or to play detective.

She took charge of making me feel safe about her work to be a better partner.

Of course, there were times I had to remind her about keeping me updated along the way, but for the most part, her doing that work showed me she was wanting us, and wanting things to work out.

Thanks everyone. When you are dealing with a WH who has lied by omission for years about stupid stuff ….. is a habit. It’s a trauma response. He knows this is no longer ok. He did lie about something small yesterday and then called me immediately very remorseful and saying he has no idea why he lied. He didn’t want to rock the boat but he caught himself. Ive heard from some programs there’s a 24 hr window to correct it…. Honestly it made me feel safer when he had the guts to admit he had lied. He’s working on it. But if I find out my boundary is he will have to leave the home for two weeks while I decide what I’m going to do. Time to pet my nervous system settle down

LizzieJ. I’m concerned about complacency and the future also. I have a post nup in place all signed for my protection. I’m hopeful but time will tell …

I’d hope your post nup days "should we D for any reason". Not should we D because of cheating.

This way the post nup is good and valid for so many reasons that could occur. As an example let’s say he starts to spend money recklessly— and you need to D - the post nup would not be invalidated b/c you are D him for reasons other than an affair or porn use.

I hope this helps you

Yes my post nup is actually a divorce agreement so all I have to do is file. All financials worked out. Lawyer said if we choose not to divorce then this is essentially a postnuptial agreement. But again , it’s a full settlement and he agreed to all.

He has been forthcoming and open - but he seems super stressed out and sad. He’s humiliated and his self esteem is in the toilet. I have to be careful here. When I say "yellow area" this is just behaviors that raise a concern. Of course if he watches porn or sees an escort it’s over. If I catch him not being fully transparent he will leave the home while I decide where I’m at. I’m trying to be realistic. Healing takes time

boundaries/consequences set.I’m working in this for myself. I hope this makes sense- I think it will to those who have done this sort of work.

I'm late to the party, as usual.

Satya, you touched on something very important. There's rules for expected behavior and there's boundaries around what is acceptable to YOU - how you'll respond - when the rules are bent. Rules are about managing others, boundaries are about you. During reconciliation, boundaries are a two way proposition. Yes, the onus to repair our relationship rested with H and repeated trustworthy actions (accountability, healing, transparency, personal boundaries around interactions with women, etc.) demonstrated over time. But firming up MY boundaries was also crucial to honestly work towards successful R. Without firm boundaries, it might be tempting to simply avoid conflict - to revert to the old relationship status quo, to be "cool" with whatever our relationship threw at me. I had to enter R with resolve to be firm, ready and willing to address my boundaries around what is acceptable... if they were breached. In other words, I had to be sure I was prepared to no longer put up with any baloney before committing to R! I was ready to walk away - no time outs for bad behavior, no yellow flags. So, for me, IC, reading and research, clearly delineated restructuring requirements for our new M, and practice around enforcing my boundaries had to happen FIRST to assure no backsliding on MY part during R. I sure didn't want that old marriage back!

****ETA:One could argue, if you feel compelled to include time-outs after suspicious behaviors "to let my nervous system settle down" in the R structure, then perhaps you're both not ready for the rigors of R. Yes, he's done some work. Of course he's super stressed out, sad and his self-esteem has taken a hit. Does this describe someone ready to own his demons, to work hard because he wants to be a better, functioning human being for HIMSELF during healthy R? Your call - you know him best. My two cents, in your specific situation, It's okay to take things slowly if more time is needed to make sure your resilience is healed enough, that both are ready to RECIPROCALLY tackle R. R isn't straightforward. It's one of the most complex and challenging processes I've ever faced.****

Your H is in 12 step and seeing a therapist. Are you also doing work to enter R with solid, self-protective boundaries in place? For example, his alcohol issues (addictive behaviors?) and other "self-soothing" (impulsive?) behaviors around sex workers (gentle aside, they're sex-workers, not escorts. He paid them for sex, not to be his cotillion date. IMO, post infidelity, accurately naming things, i.e., cheating was a "choice" not a "mistake" - is key to not enabling cheater minimizations) and porn were mentioned previously. Al-Anon participation for you might be useful to prepare for R with a partner working on addictive/impulsive behaviors.......just a suggestion. Hope it helps.

One of my super important rules (vs boundaries) around R was my H had to address his ENTITLEMENT. Hope the following doesn't sound harsh. In addition to therapy and 12 step, for your sake, sincerely hope your H is taking a hard look at his self-entitlement. He felt entitled to pay for whatever happened in those hotel rooms and okay with objectifying women via his porn and sex trade consumption - in his world view women are a commodity to be bought, sold and objectified to serve his ego fortification and pleasure. He felt entitled to that double life. Yes, no porn/no sex-workers is a given RULE for R. But how does his (ahem) male-centric world view play out in your day-to-day relationship? Is that status quo okay with you? If not, time to shore up your boundaries - what is acceptable to YOU - and make new relationship expectations crystal clear - before R.

For my H, examining and acknowledging the inherent self-entitlement required to engage in betrayal and lying was only part of his process. He had to own his tacit buy-in to any self-entitlement at work in our relationship. No more subtle belittling of my career and $$ contributions because he made more $$, and no more feeling entitled to me managing his life because he "worked so hard" while traveling for work a lot of the year. Yeah, well I also "worked so hard" by working full time while single-handedly raising a kid and managing our home. Sure, his paycheck helped support our comfortable lifestyle. But when we married, I didn't sign on to be the caretaker if he became the higher wage earner. In fact, when we married I earned more $$ and we cooperatively managed a lot of the home stuff!Time for him to once again step up and reclaim equal responsibility around decision making and day to day household stuff if R was going to be successful. And he had to take responsibility for HIMSELF - my boundaries around this expectation were numerous. A few: no more bill paying for him, making his medical appointments, acting as go between for he and D and his FOO. Like Chaos said, he had to become a "responsible monogamous adult."

[This message edited by BoundaryBuilder at 7:52 PM, Monday, August 11th]

Two years after DD. The real one after 6 months of lied to ‘protect’ me. The truth was indeed horrible but I would have preferred to hear everything from the beginning after it came out. Finding things out yourself is tremendously hurtful.
No yellow of whatever colors anymore. It’s green or nothing. Red is out.
Even when we are very good together. We are better than before the A. More open, closer en more honest. Also me.
However I ll never accept any misstep again. No 🚩for me anymore.

Hmmm…. The whole boundary setting and green yellow red are part of many therapeutic programs. We all said we’d "never stay with a cheater" yet here we are. As my WH goes through his "Work" and is dealing with his many issues….im looking at progress not perfection. He is undoing years of habits and trauma . I am prepared, I have my post nup. Red zone are my final straw but I also know that the symptoms are not the problem. I guess reconciliation is about healing together….hes still healing. But I’m setting boundaries for my protection

The obvious first boundary was no contact but I had no way of knowing if she was honoring that. Second, no going out after work drinking with coworkers. Third, if she was out with a female coworker for dinner and a male coworker(s) just happened to show up she was to end dinner early and leave or call me and ask me to join them if the male coworker(s) was asked to join them by the female coworker. Again, I had no way of knowing if she would or wouldn't.

The two times she had gone out for dinner she had sent me a pic of her and the coworker.

Fourth, no communicating with male coworkers via text whether at work or outside of and no communicating with male coworkers outside of work via phone. No need for her to have a male coworker's phone number with her job. If there's a need for communication it can be done via official school email.

I am the type of guy who assumes that a man who only wants to be "friends" with a female coworker is just waiting for an opening (such as going out after work drinking with coworkers).

I do not see me ever relaxing these boundaries. I told her if this makes her feel like a prisoner I understand and we can go our separate ways.

I have never been okay with coworkers going out drinking without spouses present. A recipe for disaster IMO since most affairs start at work. Throw in a social setting, some alcohol, and you might just end up on this website sadly.

Boundaries are only worth how much someone is going to respect them.

Hmmm…. The whole boundary setting and green yellow red are part of many therapeutic programs.

Think I get what you're saying. Perhaps folks are conflating boundaries vs. rules.

No Contact between APs is a rule. No porn is a rule. So, no yellow flags on rules makes sense. Either they're broken or they're not broken.

"I will no longer manage his personal bills" is a Boundary. A yellow flag when this boundary is pushed could be a partner ignoring a bill, and then getting annoyed when it comes due - when it was clearly their responsibility to pay it. Consequence? They pay the bill AND the late fee. No bailing them out. Red flag - repeated late bill payments. Consequence? Separation ;-). Simplistic, but you get the idea.

"People often confuse boundaries and rules because they both involve setting limits, but they differ significantly in their focus and purpose. Boundaries are about self-care and personal limits, defining what you will and will not tolerate, while rules are often about controlling others' behavior. People may also mistakenly use the term "boundary" when they are actually setting a rule, especially when trying to influence someone else's actions.Some individuals may be uncomfortable with the idea of imposing rules, so they reframe them as boundaries."

Using my situation as an example, here's a couple of the MANY (lol) Rules we agreed on for R framework :

No entitlement
No more social media (his idea)

I didn't do the yellow flag vs red flag criteria, but if it helps, here's examples of personal boundaries during R designed to help me face conflict in a healthy way, rather than avoid it (my former Cool Wife MO):

If we need to discuss a potentially high conflict subject, I'll email him about it first. Then we'll talk face to face.
When talking face to face, conflict is inevitable, but I won't engage if there's
Raised Voices
Personal Attacks
Dismissive Behavior
Consequence if these behaviors are displayed, by either of us, I'll leave the room. If necessary, I'll take a walk to further exit the conflict. But I will return to the subject after a break. No avoidance!

Hope this helps clarify our discussion. Satya, setting boundaries for your protection is wise, and will serve you well. Hoping the best for you!

[This message edited by BoundaryBuilder at 11:54 PM, Monday, August 11th]

Hi there, so sorry that you have to experience this pain also. The biggest boundary for me was no more "boy outings", no more "boy trips" Those were the main ones for me that are pretty much still in place this day...all these years later. I will pray that you make it through this challenging time. God Bless.