SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

So I've got a problem and I don't know what to do.
My GF of 17 years is, at the very least, talking to and spending time with another guy behind my back and I'm very worried it could be more.
I've never been worried about something like this before in the whole 17 years of our relationship. She's always been very passionately in love with me and usually can't stand being apart for me from too long. She's always been a very social person, but not flirtatious and, above all, she's never been in any way secretive about the people she associates with.
Our relationship went through some problems over the past few years when she developed a heavy drinking problem. Things were very bad for a while, and I had to threaten to end things, but she got sober earlier this year and things really started to improve for a while. It's worth noting that, even while she was drinking, I never suspected infedility for a few reasons, but mostly because she was never dishonest about who she was with and where she was.
That all changed a couple of days ago. She relapsed in her drinking over the holidays, and I went through her text messages to try to get some more info about the extent of the problem. Instead, I found a long text message thread with some guy I've never met or heard of. Apparently they met at a bar near us a few months ago (it also appears her relapse has been happening longer than I thought). The texts start out fairly normal - it was nice to meet you kind of stuff before progressing "omg it was so good talking to you last night" and "I can't wait to see you again" type of stuff. Then he sends one asking her if they can hang out "somewhere besides the bar" to which she replies "sounds like a plan".
Now, let me say up front that there's no kind of "proof" they did anything physical, and it's even possible they haven't yet (although I'm very worried). But there are texts where they're planning to meet up and do things and even texts about her going to his house to have dinner and even sleep there (just saying things like "I'm sorry I woke you up with my snoring", but still). And the kicker - there's a text about her going over to his house to hang out the day after Christmas, when I thought she drove to the suburbs to visit her mom and slept there.
There's also frequent half hour long phone calls between them and messages from her like "can't wait to talk to you", "you looked so handsome last night" "you should come hang out with me I look great right now" and even a late night drunk text asking if she can "come see you right now" (which he didn't answer, and she apologized to him the next day for drunk dialing him).
I have no idea what to do. On one hand I don't actually know for sure if this is a physical affair yet or just an emotional one at this point. I don't have any proof of anything that she couldn't easily deny or minimize and I came about it in a somewhat unethical way (by going through her text messages, which I acknowledge I shouldn't have been doing in the first place). I also feel like confronting her with it will just teach her to make sure she deletes anything she doesn't want me to see in the future. On the other hand - I wasn't born yesterday. I know that there is something serious going on, but I don't know just how bad. I know I have to do something, I just have no idea what. I've never been in a situation anything like this before. This has all struck me out of nowhere and I feel like I'm still in somewhat of a state of shock. Any advice anyone can give me would be greatly appreciated.

Drinking is a highway to cheating. They all like to hang out together and things happen. She needs to get into treatment asap.

I am sorry you are facing this situation at the start of the year and throughout the holiday season.

But let’s be clear. She is cheating. She is lying to you and being dishonest and whether it’s a physical thing or not, she is cheating.

Coupled with a relapse from sobriety and you have a number of serious issues to deal with right now.

You may want to consider getting some professional counseling for yourself before confronting her. It may help you understand your feelings and help you make decisions on next steps.

You may want to keep a copy of their texts and how often they speak. This will help you avoid her trying to gaslight you and having to listen to the "it’s not what it seems" nonsense.

Be prepared for her trying to blame you for her choice to cheat. As in "you worked too much" or "you weren’t there for me" type crap.

It is only the fault of the cheater for the affair. There is no reason or excuse to why she cheated other than "she made the choice to cheat". Period. You could be the worst person on the earth, and it’s not an excuse or reason to cheat.

Continue to post here as you will get excellent t advice.

Sorry that you found us here. If you are in a serious monogamous relationship (which from your description you are), then I think you deserve transparency in this situation. You could casually mention that a friend of yours saw her with a guy at the bar and you never heard her mentioning it and whether she has something to say, because you think neither of you should hang out one on one with someone of the opposite sex. Then see how she responds. Whether she lies about it or confess and come clean with how far they have been. I hope it turns out that he is just an old friend but you have to prepare for the worst. So sorry your new year starts with this heart wrenching situation.

Thanks so much for replying so fast. And yes I agree with you - if there was nothing to hide she wouldn't be doing it in secret.
I think the most helpful thing I've seen you and others say here is to take a little time to consider what to do. I think I was taken back by the shock of the whole thing and really fretting over the "what should I do" part. Like I said I know I have to do something, I just don't know what - but it's giving me some relief to know I have some time to figure it out. And thankfully I already have a counselor, who I will definitely be discussing this issue with when I see him.
It's definitely also good that I seem to have found some experienced people to help me figure out what that "what" is.

Im sorry you are having to go through this nightmare. Keep posting, you will get some really good advice on these forums.

One part of your post stood out to me:

even texts about her going to his house to have dinner and even sleep there (just saying things like "I'm sorry I woke you up with my snoring", but still). And the kicker - there's a text about her going over to his house to hang out the day after Christmas, when I thought she drove to the suburbs to visit her mom and slept there.

It sounds like she has stayed the night over at his house. Im sorry to tell you this but if that's true the chances it went physical are very high. Get yourself tested for STDs ASAP, and find a reason to hold off on sex until you have more information.

Read up in the library here for lots of good advice.

I think you have enough to confront her now... hiding a relationship with another man, spending the night etc is an affair. If she has not had sex yet, you might stop that by confronting asap. The majority odds say she has slept with him already, why else do you spend the night with a man? But she will likely deny that when you confront. Most people lie about their affairs and give you trickle truth over days, weeks or months.

Dont rugsweep this! Take action, confront her and get out of infidelity.

Thanks everyone for the kind words and replies.
I'm open to confronting her, but I'm pretty sure I know how it would go. She'd say he's just a friend and nothing happened, and I'll have nothing to counter her with, followed by promises that I'm the only one she loves and annoyances that I don't trust her and went through her texts. Then she would just make sure she hides her phone better and deletes any weird texts between them, and I would just be left with my suspicions.
I've also been asking myself what I want out of this at this point. Part of me just wants to break up with her and be done with it (why even give her a chance to lie?) but this is a very serious LTM and I still have a lot of feelings for her. But I just don't know how to move forward in any way that would actually restore trust. I don't think a confrontation would do that for me for the reasons I just stated, but I also don't know any other options.
Are there any other options I'm not thinking of? And if a confrontation is best, any advice on how to go about and what to do if I get stonewalled (as I'm expecting)?

I'm open to confronting her, but I'm pretty sure I know how it would go. She'd say he's just a friend and nothing happened, and I'll have nothing to counter her with, followed by promises that I'm the only one she loves and annoyances that I don't trust her and went through her texts.

I agree with you. You aren't going to get any proof of anything from her because you already know she is a liar.

When I first read your post yesterday my first thought is that you definitely need more information. This morning I feel the very same way. You need more information. However, I am hesitant to offer any suggestions because I am just a stranger on the internet and I do not know you, your wayward partner, nor your living situation.

The only suggestion I can offer at this point is to peruse "the healing library" on this website. There are a lot of good articles... especially in the Discovery/Confrontation section. I would begin with "A Tactical Primer".

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/documents/library/articles/discovery/tactical-primer/

It has a ton of good information. The steps to use there have proven successful time and time again. There used to be a saying here that went something like "Take what you need or can use, and forget the rest". That applies also to the responses you get here.

Good luck to you.

[This message edited by lrpprl at 2:04 PM, Friday, January 2nd]

I guess it's a continuum, on one side is "I need proof of sex to prove an affair" and on the other side is "you already have proof of an affair, at the very least an emotional affair".

If your exclusive, long term GF is hanging out with another guy, getting drunk and then spending an entire night at his place... What do you call that? I call it an affair. Don't accept the idea that you are too controlling if you expect an exclusive GF to actually be exclusive. To have boundaries with all the men she interacts with. Even if they never touched each other, never kissed, it's still wrong for her to be spending that time with another man, hiding it from you, lying about her whereabouts to you. Does she have the right to do that? Of course she does. But she doesn't get to do that and remain your GF. At the very least she can't do that and expect you to be exclusive to her at the same time she is sleeping over with other men.

And on the point of her getting upset you checked her phone and don't trust her... that's a smoke screen isn't it? Yes, it happens a lot that WS or WGF complain about snooping. But she's drinking in an unhealthy way and you checked up on her for her own safety and legitimate concern. Then you see a guy chatting her up, what would any reasonable man do? Read the damn thread and find out what's happening. It turns out her very own behavior caused you to look so do not in any way feel guilty for looking. She needs to feel guilty for the A she is having, not you.

All this adds up to you being strong, confident and firm. Do not be a doormat or rugsweep. You should not have any guilt about checking up on her, nor for holding her accountable for her commitment to you. When she says "but I love only you", if she does indeed respond that way, tell her she is not acting that way by having an A. The woman who is your partner/GF does not hang out alone with other guys; she can make a choice whether that is how she wants to behave. You choose if she stays in your life. Make that clear to her.

The book Not Just Friends may be helpful for both of you if you both want to reconcile. Plus whatever alcohol treatment she may need of course.

All of this above is how I would proceed. However, it avoids the issue of sex. Based upon probably 95% of cases here at SI, you should assume they have had sex. Adults who drink repeatedly with members of the opposite sex, hide their actions from their partner and spend the night together are generally having sex. Is it possible they have not gotten there yet? Yes. Is it likely? No. If you are in the 5% then your intervention now can stop the sex from happening. It may be too late for that, if so, then at least you can stop her from having more sex by stopping the A now. Sex or not, you want to get out of infidelity and either stop the A or leave her, don't you?

The only reason it makes sense to wait before confronting, imo, is if you are rock solid sure that if you knew she had sex then you would dump her. In that case, using a VAR to get more information before confronting might be helpful. But even then there is risk because she might sleep with him this weekend for the first time if you don't confront. Yes, most WS lie and say there was no sex when confronted. There are lots of ways to try to get the truth after confronting and they are covered thoroughly here at SI. I will admit you may never get all the answers but that is also true if you wait to confront.. there is no guarantee she will discuss the sex they had in their texts.

Does that make sense? What do you think? What else do you need regarding how you might confront her and what you might say?

I'm open to confronting her, but I'm pretty sure I know how it would go. She'd say he's just a friend and nothing happened, and I'll have nothing to counter her with, followed by promises that I'm the only one she loves and annoyances that I don't trust her and went through her texts. Then she would just make sure she hides her phone better and deletes any weird texts between them, and I would just be left with my suspicions.

You're almost certainly correct here. You don't have the smoking gun yet (tho I think you have quite a bit), and confronting her now would likely result in denial followed by taking it further underground. You don't want her to know how you know anything, or what all you do know. Cheaters are liars. It comes with the territory, and you won't get anything from her that can't be definitively proven. If she knows what you know and how you got it, she will spin a story to cover just those facts and nothing more. When you do confront you'll want to come across like you know more than you do. Then she might admit to more than she would have otherwise.

I agree that maybe some counseling before you confront would be a good idea. This sucks bad, but you might want to go into detective mode without letting her know you're detecting to try to get some more solid evidence.

However, and I hate saying this. Believe me, I really hate saying this, but by the time someone's apologizing for their snoring and have spent the night it is almost a certainty things have gotten physical. I know how much that hurts, believe me, I know, but at this point it's the most likely conclusion. Almost certainly - most likely. So brace yourself for the worst.

The drinking is a huge issue, and she's going to have to get some help with that if you're going to be able to patch this up. You're going to be on an emotional roller coaster for a long time. I don't have a lot of proactive advice for you right now, but others will be along with some more ideas.

I just wanted to say that I'm so sorry you've found yourself here, you're not alone, and while it doesn't feel like it right now, one way or another things will get better for you. It's going to take time. Read up in the healing library, and don't get sucked into playing the pick me game. That almost never works. You can't "nice" them back. She has to want to, and often the threat of breaking up is one way to snap a wayward spouse out of the fog. Don't put up with any disrespect, and do not take any blame for her actions. If you have problems in the relationship that can be partly your fault, but her decision to step outside the relationship is 100% on her and her alone.

If you confront, it is very likely, as you suspect, she will deny and work harder to hide things. As suggested above you need to do more before confronting. Part of that is work on yourself to clarify where you stand on how you will respond. The other part is the detective work, which others here might advise you on, but if you can afford it would include hiring a detective to find out about the AP and look in detail at her electronic footprint for further indications of their relationship. For now you want to be ears and eyes open and mouth shut.

Hello BT,

Im truly sorry to hear your going through this.

Are there any other options I'm not thinking of? And if a confrontation is best, any advice on how to go about and what to do if I get stonewalled (as I'm expecting)?

Your right to feel that she will try to Stonewall you and lie about it, they typically do and she's already shown the classic behaviors and is actively hiding this from you. But you already have quite a bit of the evidence you need to overcome that.

You know she was hanging out with another guy, had an emotional relationship and most likely a physical one based on staying the night at his place. (What else would they be doing?)

Even if in some weird reality they havent had sex, its still all cheating and lying.

You could definitely do more investigating to see if you could find out more before confronting. The more you have, the better positioned youll be.

If you can get access to her phone, Check deleted texts, check her camera app, look at deleted photos to see if you can find anything additional. Keep in mind however, you cant unsee what you find, it will stick with you.

On Iphones theres a recently deleted folder for texts and images, same for Android, theres a trash for these that auto deletes in 30 days. Just google it and youll find instructions.

Take pictures of any evidence with your phone camera, so you have it when you do confront her.

Also, understand that you are completely justified in going through your GFs texts when you know your being lied to. I had to do the same with my wife when she wasnt honest. They will play the invasion of privacy card, but hold strong on that.

"If you were honest with me, I wouldn't have been forced to do that. You gave me no choice by not being honest with me. Also, if nothing was going on that shouldnt be, there wouldn't be anything to find. I understand your upset, but its only because I found out the truth that you were trying so hard to hide from me."

I would also be thinking about yourself in this situation. Figure out what your plan is if she continues not to be honest with you or come clean after confronting. You may need an exit strategy.

Also, the drinking is a major issue. If she's drinking and hanging out in bars with other guys, this will continue to leave the door open for this to happen again and again. You dont want that, if it was me she would need to show me with her actions that she is committed to recovery to even consider reconciliation.

This is very difficult to go through BT and I feel for you in this situation. Good luck!

My friend, I think you're in denial here. If she's sending him text messages about longing to see him or how handsome he is, women don't send shit like that unless they're really interested. She's at the least infatuated. If he says he's sorry he woke her up with snoring - maybe I'm misunderstanding something here, that means they were in bed together. If she says she's with her mom and some other relative and she's not, she's lying to you. All of that means she is cheating on you and cheating physically. Most healthy people who have access to each other have sex. I think you have to give up the hopium and unfortunately deal with the cheating. And the drinking. For some reason she's decided to regress - do you have any sense why? I'm not saying there's anything you can do about this, I come from a long line of alcoholics and there really is nothing you can do for them. They like to drink. I think when they drink, from my observations, they are free to become the person they are....or want to be. That's the real person IS the drinker. It gives them the freedom to be what they really are inside and the excuse to cover it up - oh, I was drunk I didn't mean any of that, what I said, what I broke, what I hit you with, who I slept with - whatever. When you're with a drinker, unless they have some kind of religious conversion or something of that fundamental nature....they always want to go back to that because that lets them be who they are inside. Often they will quit because they develop a life threatening disease or they have a near death experience. That's what it takes, something that primal.

Personally, and this is just me, what I would do, I would confront her and say....you seem to be in love with this guy, or at least deeply infatuated, I think you're having sex with him or you certainly want to and will, you're doing this because you're drinking again and this is what you want to do. This is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY, I'm not your savior, get the F out. I would end this right now. You're not married, just end it. You're gonna go through a lot of shit if you don't. She does NOT respect you, and whatever affection she might have for you, is nothing compared to the rush she's getting from this guy. Some people just cannot be handle their liquor or be faithful because at their core, they are dishonest people and the first person they lie to is THEMSELVES....all the other lies come out of that. I know 17 years is a long time and you thought she had turned a corner, but nah.....she just kept it under control and for some reason, she's unleashing it now. Frankly after 17 years of being a "girl friend" maybe she wants an actual marriage - the status of a wife. I don't know, it occurs to me.

At any rate, you can't solve this on your own or with her. She has to solve this and if you keep trying to recon or save the relationship or save her....you're just gonna end up spinning your wheels and being more and more miserable as she keeps lying to you and goes deeper and deeper. This is some something she WANTS to do and you can't stop it. If it's not this guy, it will be another one .Personally I would end this now, I would not listen to pleas or tears or threats, etc. You know what you know and that's not gonna change and yes, she IS having sex with this guy and you know that. For your own good, get out of this. People rarely listen when you talk sense to them and you probably won't either but...that's how it's gonna shake out. Don't waste the effort, tell her you know what she's doing and it's over. PERIOD END OF STORY. Maybe if she straightens herself out eventually, you can get back together, I would not take her back personally, but that's up to you. I'd take some time to myself and then look around and find someone WHO DOES NOT DRINK OR TAKE DRUGS. Because that person is not fully there, never fully present and they lie to themselves and you. Much of the time they don't know how to be happy with what they have, they always want something else. The drinking and drugs are about fantasy, living in fantasy. And rejecting what they have.

Final thing - don't feel bad about looking at her phone... STOP THIS RIGHT NOW!!! You are in a long term relationship, 17 years, and no one in a long relationship like that can have secrets from their SO. You can't - you can have privacy but not secrets. She is lying to you, this is YOUR life too, you need to know what is going on. DON'T EVER APOLOGIZE FOR SNOOPING WHEN YOU THINK SOMEONE IS LYING. YOU HAVE AN ABSOLUTE RIGHT TO DO THIS. You have to know what is really affecting your life.

I'm sorry you're going through this, we all are but I've got to be honest....you should end this immediately, Don't listen to her tears and lies and bullshit. You know what you know, end it and move on. Otherwise she'll play you for a sucker.

As to why she is doing this....it doesn't matter and you will never understand because you are not the type of person who does this stuff. Good luck and have faith in yourself and your ability to overcome this and find a better woman. There's always a woman for any guy out there as long as you can walk upright....not so much in reverse as we get older.

[This message edited by BondJaneBond at 6:59 PM, Friday, January 2nd]

P.S. Brokenthoughts - I know I may sound harsh but...brother, you need a heavy does of reality serum. Right now you're probably thinking how you could be wrong, it could be a mistake, maybe a flirtation, etc, I shouldn't be looking, etc, and none of that is true. YOU DON'T NEED PROOF. You know enough. You really do. Just accept it. You could keep looking but all you're going to get is being the "marriage police" and an endless stream of lies, excuses and maybe attacks and devaluing from her to try to blame you for it. And it's gonna wear you down and drag this out. You know enough right now. You're not married, doesn't sound like you have kids - just end it and move on. Eventually you will come to this conclusion anyway and it's better to do it sooner than later. Don't waste any more of you precious life or heart on this. It gets worse the longer you stay and try to fix it, or her, or ignore it or excuse it. Just get out. It's her responsibility to fix herself or to seek professional help if she can't.

Are there any other options I'm not thinking of? And if a confrontation is best, any advice on how to go about and what to do if I get stonewalled (as I'm expecting)?

You do not need to ask her if she’s cheating or get her to admit to cheating.

Not sure why we, as betrayeds, think we need a lying cheating spouse to admit to anything.

My suggestion: you sit down with your wife and tell her that you know she has been lying and cheating. You don’t need to go through her phone, you don’t need to provide her with proof, you are not asking her for validation, but you are stating a fact.

Do not give her an opportunity to continue to lie, blame shift or go through the "you’re just jealous and crazy" routine.

You very calmly and rationally say to her that you realize she is interested in someone else and that you are not trying to stop her if she wants to have a relationship with this other person. However, she cannot do this while living in your home, and if she chooses to continue to lie and cheat, you will request that she find another place to reside. At that point you will recognize that she’s made her choice and you let her know that it would be in everyone’s best interest to just start divorce proceedings.

I can tell you from my experience that on D-Day two I learned that my husband was still cheating. After six months of hearing him, tell me he wanted a divorce. I very calmly approached him and in 30 seconds, said these words to him: I am divorcing you. Unfortunately, I have no other options left and I have nothing left to give to this marriage. You are free to be with the other woman or any other person that you choose.

And I left the room. No yelling. No crying. Just said what i needed to say. It wasn’t a threat. I had every intention of D him.

Thereafter I did the very hard 180 to start emotionally detaching and separating from him.

In any conversation after that if he attempted to lie or rug sweep, I called him on it and left the room. I shut down any conversation where he thought he was going to love bomb, lie or not be completely honest. He learned after 2 days he no longer had any power or control over me.

From this I learned how to get what I want in most situations w/ him w/out yelling or arguing. I learned how to stand up for myself and no longer be a doormat. And it started with shutting down the cheater’s typical behaviors where they think they are still in control Of everything.

Correct me if I am wrong but you read a text message that said sorry my snoring woke you up? You might not have proof of a physical affair but how does one end up next to a person close enough that he/she hear them snoring?

Based on what you've told us I am inclined to believe there has been a PA. There is definitely an EA going on. She spent the night at his house. Your partner spent the night with another man.

By chance did you print out copies of the text messages you saw? The phone log? That will come in handy

When confronted most WS's start with denial such as I don't know what you're talking about, there's nothing going on he's just a friend, why are you so suspicious, why don't you trust me. But when confronted with evidence of infidelity they sometimes switch to minimization such as we were only flirting it's no big deal, nothing happened and nothing ever would have, you are overreacting.

If that doesn't work they sometimes switch to DARVO and try to put you on the defensive. You don't spend enough time with me, you work too much, you don't support me emotionally, etc. This is yet another tactic to deflect guilt and hopefully convince you that you are in the wrong and hope you let it go AKA rug sweep

I suggest you sit down with her, look her in the eyes and ask is our relationship okay and see how she responds. If she looks at you and says everything is okay, why are you asking, you now know she is willing to lie to your face

If she responds with why are you asking tell her to just answer the question. If she says everything is fine then ask her is there anything I need to know about and if she says no Then you ask her are you interacting with any other guys in a manner that is harmful to our relationship. At this point she's probably going to wonder if you know and what you know and this is where the minimization, deflection, DARVO, etc start to happen.

At this point if she has not confessed then you simply say I know about him and see how she reacts. Do not tell her everything you know, let her wonder what you do know. Right now you only know what you have discovered and chances are very good there is a lot more that she probably will not tell you. You may get some details here and there AKA trickle truth

When confronted if she does not break down begging for forgiveness or if she just dismisses you then it might be time to end the relationship. She has to think you are willing to end the relationship if she does not come clean but if she thinks you will just get over it she will stick to her guns and just wait for you to get over it but it will sit in the background festering until one day it erupts and by this point the relationship is in serious trouble

You are in for a rough ride. Your mind will probably be processing a million thoughts a minute. Your emotions will make you feel like you are on a roller coaster. Discovering infidelity is an incredibly traumatic experience. It rattles you to the soul because everything you thought was real and safe and secure just evaporated

As others have suggested, schedule a full STD panel. Do not believe her when she says nothing physical happened because she has no reason to tell you at this point if something did. At this point you need to prioritize your mental and physical health.

When I confronted my wife thankfully I had the frame of mind to record the hour-long conversation because I knew there was no way I would be able to remember everything that was said and how it was said and I knew I would need to revisit our conversation many times in the future hence the reason I recorded it. There were a few instances during counseling where my wife said something to the effect of I never said that or I didn't act like that or you said this and I was able to say you are wrong and if you want we can listen to the conversation

I'm sorry you are part of the club that no one wants to be a member of but you are in a great place for advice and support. Most of the members are from the Betrayed side but we do have a handful of people who were the cheaters so they are able to offer a counter perspective on things

Stay strong, don't get angry as that could be used against you, put yourself first. The only way reconciliation has a chance is if the WS admits 100% fault and is willing to drag his or her bare butt through miles of broken glass if that's what is needed to repair the relationship. I would strongly advise against seeing a MC, find an IC that specializes in trauma because believe it or not you are going through an incredibly traumatic experience.

Once you feel like your feet are back on the ground and you can't think clearly and if you still feel you want to work on repairing the relationship then consider MC. I would also suggest you demand that she enters AA and starts seeing an IC on at least a biweekly if not weekly basis. I told my wife that until I believe that whatever was missing or broken inside her has been found and or repaired I will not consider her to be a safe partner

Good luck and we are here for you

17 years is a long time. You would be considered "common law married" where I live. Depending on how this shakes out, if you want to try to reconcile, and you think she is a good candidate for it, you should have her take a lie detector test. You have a right to know the full extent of her treachery before you commit to reconciliation.

I suggest you sit down with her, look her in the eyes and ask is our relationship okay and see how she responds. If she looks at you and says everything is okay, why are you asking, you now know she is willing to lie to your face

If she responds with why are you asking tell her to just answer the question. If she says everything is fine then ask her is there anything I need to know about and if she says no Then you ask her are you interacting with any other guys in a manner that is harmful to our relationship. At this point she's probably going to wonder if you know and what you know and this is where the minimization, deflection, DARVO, etc start to happen.

^This

I think I've been on "the rollercoaster" the last couple of days. I might have been a little bit in the denial phase before, but I've swung over into white hot rage since my last post.

What I think I'm gonna do is say everything you said there up to "are you interacting with any other guys" part. Then, when she says no, I'm gonna ask "where were you last Friday?". After letting her sweat a few seconds in silence I'm gonna add "I know you weren't with your mother like you told me". Then I'm gonna watch her squirm and see what she comes up with.

After hearing whatever crap she squirts out, I'm gonna sit quietly for a second, and then ask "who is [OM's Full Name]"?

And from that point I'm not gonna put up with any crap. If she tries to go down the minimization and self pity route, I'll just cut her off and say "you spent the night at another man's house AND lied about where you were".

And, if she tries to say anything about wanting to be back with me, I'm gonna tell her to text him in front of me "I'm getting back together and working things out with my BF. I'm sorry but I don't think it's appropriate if we see each other anymore ". Then I'm going to sit with her until he texts her back and see what he says (which I'm sure will be telling). If she refuses any of that it's over. I'll just let her know that I've put up with a lot in this relationship because I love her a lot, but this is a step too far. Honestly, I'm not even sure if I want to continue it even if she does confess fully and does everything else I ask, but at least it'll be a start if she does.

I'm clearly still in the rage phase. Maybe I'll calm down later and make it something a little less intense (or less like an episode of JCS Criminal Psychology ). I also don't want to do it right away as I'd like some time to get screenshots of the texts and speak to my counselor on Monday. Also possibly tell a few other ppl I trust what's going on and try to set up something to do immediately after the confrontation. So I'm sure I'll also be in for a few more turns on the rollercoaster. But I'm definitely not in any kind of denial anymore and I promise this ain't getting swept under no rugs!

Thanks everyone for listening and for your kind words.

Frankly after 17 years of being a "girl friend" maybe she wants an actual marriage - the status of a wife. I don't know, it occurs to me.

This is certainly part of it, and it's something she's even brought up to me. But the main reason it hasn't happened is because of the drinking problem she developed. Now that she had gone to detox and was doing work to stay sober, our relationship had improved dramatically and we were definitely back on the road to marriage again, which I made clear to her.

I also know that I've had a hand in the deterioration of the relationship - I have a very bad long term marijuana addiction that I was also in recovery for before relapsing recently, and it's lead to stagnation in both myself and the relationship. But I fully agree with you and everyone here that I don't deserve what's happening because of that. I even have a detailed self improvement plan I was about to start, and I still will, regardless of how this turns out. If she decides to fence sit perhaps it can start to look like "the 180" I see everyone talking about here (if I even decide to give her a chance to reconcile, which I haven't even decided yet. I'm still trying to figure out this whirlwind of feelings I'm going through).

And I also know that the drinking is a big aspect of what is happening - perhaps even the main thing. Addicts leaving their SO for someone who doesn't "judge" them for their addiction and is a cliche as old as time, unfortunately. That's why I know that if reconciliation is even possible it has to start with a full re-commitment to her sobriety. That was a confrontation I was about to have even before I found this out (it's why I was going through her phone in the first place). It's the only way she will ever be able to have the "status" she wants with me.

Thanks for the help.

[This message edited by Brokenthoughts at 10:44 PM, Friday, January 2nd]