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So stbx has informed me that he's joining dating sites (we haven't even finished filing the divorce paperwork *lolsob*), and he's taken me off location tracking. Which, fine, whatever, it's his life now, and our kid is still able to track his location.

My question is regarding our "family nights" - typically once a week, I drive over to the house and we do dinner and a movie/tv show together with our kid. This was something that stbx proposed in order to show our kid that we're comfortable around each other, and I agreed that it was a good idea. I want to remain friendly around him for our kid's sake, and this gives us the opportunity to talk through financial and other practical stuff, too.

Going forward, though, if he's going to be dating, I don't feel comfortable with the idea of family nights. It just seems weird and likely triggering for me to have to spend time in our former home while knowing he's been with other women. I'm thinking of telling him that I can't continue to do family nights while he's dating. Is this a reasonable boundary for me to draw? Or should I work on myself to keep doing family nights (for all the reasons it was a good idea in the first place)?

I’m not a parent, so take that into consideration.
But you are NOT a family anymore. So it’s disingenuous to have family night and probably a little confusing for your kid. What happens when he brings some new person over? I mean, it has to end at some point… so now might be a good time.
You can still be civil or polite but you don’t have to be besties.

For clarity, the kid is 16yo, so there's no confusion about our status. This is mainly to show her that her dad and I are on friendly terms. I've asked him to tell her about his dating plans soon, and I've requested that he not bring anyone over on the nights she's with him, which he's agreed to (for now *bitter laugh*).

I don't think I could do weekly family nights with a spouse I divorced for infidelity, period. You can still demonstrate comfort and civility in front of your daughter without committing to weekly "date nights" with your ex. It just seems to me that it could be kind of triggering and unnecessary.

No judgement or anything. I can only speak for myself and how I'd feel about it. Besides, one way or another he would have started dating again eventually, so you'd have been presented with that dilemma somewhere down the road.

Also, if he does end up with a girlfriend is she going to be kosher with him spending an evening away from her every week with his ex wife?

Doing the family nights might not be a bad idea.

Think of stbx as a brother. Then nothing you’re worried about would matter.

Best wishes.

I think a boundary along the lines of, "I have decided that the best thing for me to be able to honor my emotional needs is that I will no longer participate in family nights."

I wouldn’t explain, discuss, reason, argue, or anything else with the stbx. Your child understands this situation, and the fact is that self-advocacy is the most important thing you can practice - because you will be teaching that child exactly how to advocate for themselves if this ever comes up in their lives.

I would carefully explain the reason you have for this change to my kid. They understand self-care at that age. No need to tell them what your ex is about to do regarding dating. The ex will make his mistakes and will be obvious in his disrespect for your request. I would let it happen, and when your kid says something, you explain simply, "I am aware, and this is an eventuality we both will face sometime."

I think showing showing her you can be on friendly terms is a great idea, school events, sports, etc. But having to put on a happy face and have him spend time with you and her is too much. Family nights ended when the family split up.

Your boundary was already expressed here.

Boundary is a self respect limit that makes you to say No.

You just said No! to this.

Here is your boundary.
He hurt you, he traumatized you, you do not have to put on with this crap for anyone in the world.
You can be civilized, perfectly ok.

But you do not have to re enact his betrayal on family nights replicating the show of happy family with the husband cheating and all looks fine from the outside (is basically a performance of the old ' normal' , the old movie where you just have been given the script where you know he is with other women)

Protect your boundaries, Protect yourself. Protect your peace.

Since you are divorcing IMO you have no say in his personal life. What about having family night at your place?

My experience is that my father left my mother for the other woman when I was a young adult.

I recommend that you don't do these family nights. They sound weird and confusing. If anything, chose a neutral place like going out for pizza, and make sure your child knows that it's fully optional and the decision is theirs alone and only if they are comfortable.

What my father wanted, and succeeded in getting probably through guilt-tripping and manipulation, was to make it my mother's responsibility to continue a relationship with him that he felt he deserved. I suspect your stbx wants the same. That's why the "family" night is at his house. Next phase is him complaining that your child doesn't spend equal time or call enough or give them an appropriate father's day gift or treat their new girlfriend with respect and expecting you to do something to correct that. Stay out of all that too.

What does your kid want?

On the whole, I think detachment is best, and that does not include a 'family night'. But a 16 year old can have a say - she has to attend, too.

There are other ways to show your child that you are still civil with each other. I don't see why family night needs to be a thing.

So stbx talked to our daughter about dating yesterday (and presented it as both of us wanting to date!!), so I talked with her today and let her know about my discomfort about family nights and also why - that it feels too reminiscent of when he was having an affair and could cause awkwardness with his future girlfriend. Kid is pretty chill about it all and says she's fine with either of us dating. She is neutral about not doing "family nights" anymore (not surprising for a teenager, I guess - she barely leaves her room LOL).

I don't want stbx at my new place - this is my safe space without negative associations. Having him over regularly would disturb my peace. I like the suggestion of meeting somewhere neutral from time to time. At the very least, there will be some overlap during the kid handoffs (she's 16 but doesn't have her drivers license). That might be enough.

I also have zero capacity for dating and told our kid so. Personally, I think stbx is desperate to assuage his guilt and that's why he hopes I'll find a new partner. I don't know how to trust someone so deeply again, though, not when I was betrayed after 20 years of monogamy. No clue if/when I'll heal enough to want to try. I'm pretty happy by myself for now.

This also means I need to hurry up and get the last of my stuff out of the house. My health is poor so I've been doing it gradually, but I'd better hire some help and just get it all done.

So stbx talked to our daughter about dating yesterday (and presented it as both of us wanting to date!!)

...

I also have zero capacity for dating and told our kid so. Personally, I think stbx is desperate to assuage his guilt and that's why he hopes I'll find a new partner.

First off, let's call this what it is. This is a lie. Your stbx lied to your kid! He knows he lied. Your interpretation that he wants you to date is generous. I think it's more likely that he is controlling the narrative with your child over why this divorce is happening - something like we both want it and are moving on. He will probably do this with friends and family too.

My father told me that he met someone, and my mother was happy for him. I was away at school and my mother told me nothing because she didn't want to bother me. I found it odd and felt I didn't understand, but I totally didn't expect my father to outright lie to me! This led to huge misunderstandings and hurt between me and my mother.

I am so proud of you for telling your kid your feelings and the truth. I think it's likely your stbx will continue to put out his narratives (Lies!) about things going forward.

Oh, and when my mother did start dating, my father told her that people were talking and she was embarrassing herself and the entire family. He said that I was embarrassed of her. Another lie! Your stbx may not be as psycho as my father, but there's no reason to think he will start to tell the truth and take accountability.

Edit: By the way, does your kid know that their father lied to them or is it more likely that they think that they probably misunderstood? That might be a situation you want to make clear.

[This message edited by KitchenDepth5551 at 5:17 PM, Sunday, January 25th]

KitchenDepth5551, I am trying to stay away from saying outright negative things about stbx to our kid, and I also don't know exactly what transpired in their conversation. Maybe he asked her how she'd feel about us dating other people, and she took that to mean that I wanted it too. Ultimately, I think she will draw her own conclusions about her dad (she's pretty smart), and I'll stick with the facts.

I will say that stbx's decisions have meant that I had to disclose more details about the affair to our daughter, which I'm sure he would prefer she not know. I had to explain *why* I don't want to be around him if he's dating - because he had a love affair with another woman for nearly 3 years. Prior to this, our kid knew that he'd cheated but not that it was a full on LTA. I had to explain why I feel incapable of dating (because of the gaslighting and subsequent trust issues).

I trust my kid's judgment a lot more than stbx's, and much like you, I think she'll see the truth of him over time. For now, it serves her to maintain a good relationship with her dad, so I'm trying to remain as neutral as possible. He's keeping our house, which is where she's lived her whole life, and he's able to do more for her physically (like cooking, cleaning, and driving) than I am. He's not a total a-hole.

Now that the lines of communication are fully open between me and her, I will continue to check in after she has big conversations with her dad and double check that the facts in her head are accurate and that narratives haven't been distorted.

Child of divorce here. No judgement. I admire your willingness to do what you felt was best for D. But....

D now knows the divorce is a consequence of his betrayal and cheating correct? He hasn't demonstrated accountability, family healing or remorse, or been working hard to become a better human being after traumatizing his family, right? And she knows that he wants to start dating before the paperwork is even filed, correct?

If so, if you continue family nights, it's showing her that it's okay to play nice family with a snake. Or, to be blunt, that it's okay to eat s*** sandwiches. Playing happy family is also handy image management for STBX - what he did to you can't be that bad because you're still "friends". Staying "friends' helps him control the narrative around the divorce with D and other family/friends.

Not saying that you can't be civil with STBX and be neutral with D when portraying his character. As long as you're HONEST with D. But playing nice family, acting as their bridge so he and D maintain some kind of a relationship, or even staying "friends' with your emotional abuser (multiple d days and As, false R and 3 year LTA is a lot to recover from!) is not healthy for you, OR, IMO for her. Your daughter is 16. Your husband an adult. What their future relationship looks like is up to them. It's not your job to promote it.

You're divorcing. Detachment from him will help to heal and help firm up those boundaries. He's not your friend. It's okay to have boundaries around interacting with him. Bonus - you're modeling for D what healthy boundaries - what healthy self-respect - look like.

[This message edited by BoundaryBuilder at 12:00 AM, Monday, January 26th]

I agree with BoundaryBuilder. I'm empathetic. I'm sure this is hard for you. Your child may have to rely on their father for financial support for several more years. You have your own unique situation.

But... The example you are showing is at times unhealthy. Sorry. It just is. I don't have answers, only past experience. Just do the best you can for them. I think you are doing great by the way. You really are. Keep the communication open.

Thank you both. I appreciate the honest external viewpoint. That is why I asked - I know I have a tendency to set myself on fire to keep my kid warm.

As part of the whole discussion yesterday, I told her I don't think we can do "family time" any longer now that her dad wants to date. I'm holding to my boundaries, and she gets it. You're both right that now that it's all in the open, I need to show her how to set and stick to healthy boundaries.

D now knows the divorce is a consequence of his betrayal and cheating correct? He hasn't demonstrated accountability, family healing or remorse, or been working hard to become a better human being after traumatizing his family, right? And she knows that he wants to start dating before the paperwork is even filed, correct?

Yes, she know that the divorce is a consequence of his betrayal and cheating correct. Yes, she knows that we haven't finished filing the paperwork. I'm not going to cover for him anymore. The dating thing means he might have a girlfriend soon, and that means there is no way to keep our situation private until we're further into the divorce. I have zero interest in protecting him from the consequences of his choices.

That said, he has shown accountability, and remorse, and he's been doing therapy and working to become a better human. The decision to divorce was mine - he actions came too late, and they are nowhere near enough for me. At this point, I'm not sure what would be enough. I think I'd need to see consistent change over a very long period (like 5-10 years), and he's clearly not capable of that. This dating thing really feels like the final nail in the coffin. RIP 32 years with this man. If only there was a way to speed up the division of property, but we have to wait for the signed judgment to wrap up the final pieces.