SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Let me get this straight...you get to abuse your wife for YEARS and if she doesn't forgive AND reconcile she is sub human?!

Flashman you need to reread your line of reasoning brother. Imagine that the situation was reversed and your the betrayed spouse and your WW said.

"You need to forgive me. We are human and not perfect and have err moments. I only cheated on you and watch a lot of porn."

Your line of thought is unacceptable to any sane BS trying to heal.

To err is human. To forgive is NOT devine, but a true expression of humanity. Unable to reconcile is the greatest sin you can make, and in doing so, you fall from the ranks of the truly human.

This is so terrible man. I was reading it and felt sick. So many things in life you don't forgive. You CHEATED on your WIFE who gave you CHILDREN who was FAITHFUL! I think for most people that suffer infidelity it is Emotional Murder. Do you forgive the person that murdered you, gave you trauma, put you at risk of stds, put your mental health on the line? You need to do some serious soul searching. Yes you had a stroke but you didn't lose your common sense.

[This message edited by BigNoob at 10:21 PM, December 28th (Monday)]

She needs to leave.

Your last post....gives me chills.

You can completely dehuminze a person because they do not want to forgive you or reconcile with you because you have abused them.

Your attitude is dangerous. You don't see her as a person...and that makes you EXTREMELY dangerous to her.

I feel I have a lot of patience and maybe too much tolerance and forgiveness for waywards, however I disagree completely Flashman.

No one deserves forgiveness after infidelity and especially not reconciliation. Cheating is a dealbreaker. Reconciliation is for people who realize how badly they screwed up and look at it as a gift and even then it’s not guaranteed. I could decide to blindside divorce my WH tomorrow and be fully not at fault for not wanting to deal with his affair anymore.

Subhuman? For not reconciling? That’s just so entitled.

Unable to reconcile with an abusive person, is the greatest sin a human can make?

If I wasn't so concerned for your wife, I'd find the absurdity of that statement to be laughable.

Run, WarriorPrincess. Run fast, run far.

I am a huge believer in forgiveness, to a point that if someone can forgive, but not able to reconcile, that person is not a person anymore. Subhuman, if you like.

I find those who expect and demand forgiveness are EXACTLY those who do not deserve it.

Red flags flying in your post, Flashman:

Unremorseful

Entitled

Manipulative

Lacking in empathy/callous

Condescending

Projecting (the subhuman comment, clearly)

Minimizing

All of these traits are quite dangerous and concerning.

Flashman, your first post sounded like someone who was saying things that he knew he SHOULD be saying based on books he's read or things he's heard in counseling... like it was written for Warrior Princess to read and not a genuine plea for advice.

Your response to me completely confirmed that suspicion. You think you're entitled to forgiveness and reconciliation no matter what to do... you are the star of your show and Warrior Princess exists only as your supporting character. She's not a human being with any agency of her own.

I was worried, originally, that my response to you might've been too harsh. It clearly wasn't.

I am a huge believer in forgiveness, to a point that if someone can forgive, but not able to reconcile, that person is not a person anymore. Subhuman, if you like.

To err is human, to forgive is NOT devine, but true humanity. Anything less than that is something Im not wasting my time entertaining such a subhuman thought process.

Well, isn't that convenient?

I assume then your wife can do whatever she wants to you and then if you don't forgive her and reconcile with her then you're the one who is subhuman?

The mind boggles. So, your wife can forgive you but she MUST reconcile? She can't say, I forgive him but I don't want to be married to him anymore? Because if she does, she's less than human?

There's a certain level of arrogance here that of course only benefits you, but worse, is actually pretty scary. Like really scary.

@WarriorPrincess - For some reason I keep having flashes of Geena Davis in my head saying "Be afraid. Be very afraid."

Nice of you to let the mask drop right here where everyone can see it. Porn use is the least of the reasons she should jet out of this marriage. Your thought process is profoundly and disturbingly wrong.

I guess this is for everyone. Yes, I dohave very black and white issues here. I needed to find reasons that I can live with to be a peerson.

It started out with the ide that if someone is not for you, your relationship, or whatever the situation is, then they are against you.

Ergo, if they are not for you, they are the enemy to you.

Im sure Ive pissed a bunch of you off by my statements, but Im not going to waste time with someone who cant reconcile after forgiveness. Tp me, that isnt forgiveness, no matter what anyone might say.

And yes, I believe that I have enormous capacity for forgiveness, also no matter what others may say.

I will have to think of the subhuman ideas though.

Although, I still believe that if anyone thinks that WarriorPrincess should just divorce me, you I now consider an enemy of mine and I will no longer waste my time with your posts, for I have better things to do with my time.

Flashman, if you have read the book "How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair" by Linda MacDonald, there is a point where she says if she had to sum up the work of a wayward spouse in one word it would be this:

HUMILITY.

Your posts sound like the exact opposite. If this makes me an "enemy", then so be it.

If someone stabbed you in the back, and you decided you could forgive them, but no longer wanted to be around them or friends with them, etc., would that make you less than human?

Flashman, I'd like to post regharding your stroke as I felt some of the posts here don't really understand traumatic brain injury.

Many years ago, my then fiance had a major blow to the head, and took some frontal lobe damage. Afterwards, he was a different person. He became cruel and selfish and manipulative and angry and also developed weird sexual behavior that was inappropriate along with a total loss of empathy.

He was, in short, a completely different person. And a stroke can have the same effects as a blow to the brain.

In his case the injury was extremely severe and led to more problems, so he sadly left us and went to live alone and play bongo drums (which is where he still is 10 years later), but I assure you before he hurt his head, he was a happy, loving, kind man who adored me and our kids.

His injury was like a death, only one where his body was still very much here.

I think you could use some help understanding TBI. I am not sure where you live, but here in the UK there is an awesome charity called "Headspace" who offer incredible information on their website about how brain injuries can affect your emotions.

There is healing for you, if you get the right help. Sending you warmest wishes as I know after something like this managing emotions and emotional situations can be incredibly hard.

Flashman, I'd like to post regharding your stroke as I felt some of the posts here don't really understand traumatic brain injury.

Many years ago, my then fiance had a major blow to the head, and took some frontal lobe damage. Afterwards, he was a different person. He became cruel and selfish and manipulative and angry and also developed weird sexual behavior that was inappropriate along with a total loss of empathy.

He was, in short, a completely different person. And a stroke can have the same effects as a blow to the brain.

In his case the injury was extremely severe and led to more problems, so he sadly left us and went to live alone and play bongo drums (which is where he still is 10 years later), but I assure you before he hurt his head, he was a happy, loving, kind man who adored me and our kids.

His injury was like a death, only one where his body was still very much here.

I think you could use some help understanding TBI. I am not sure where you live, but here in the UK there is an awesome charity called "Headspace" who offer incredible information on their website about how brain injuries can affect your emotions.

There is healing for you, if you get the right help. Sending you warmest wishes as I know after something like this managing emotions and emotional situations can be incredibly hard.

Flashman

Forgiveness is a GIFT that the betrayed give to the waywards.

Reconciliation is a GIFT that the betrayed give to the waywards.

You can't just expect Santa or the Magic Genie to come in and magically give you forgiveness and reconciliation. It is earned by your actions!

I think what you want is rugsweeping and that is basically a band aid over a stab wound. Yeah it helps for a little bit but resentment will be built up over time for WP.

Kate88, he cheated on and abused his wife long before his stroke.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 9:31 AM, December 30th (Wednesday)]

Although, I still believe that if anyone thinks that WarriorPrincess should just divorce me, you I now consider an enemy of mine and I will no longer waste my time with your posts, for I have better things to do with my time.

Well, that will save some time for both of us.

Although, I still believe that if anyone thinks that WarriorPrincess should just divorce me, you I now consider an enemy of mine

Something tells me you have lots of enemies...

I'm praying for you.

You went to Retrovaille, so I'm going to assume you come from a Catholic background. I believe immorality is linked to idolatry. Idolatry first, then immorality. So whatever you love or value that makes you tick, whatever you get up for in the morning, whatever keeps you going? That's your issue. That's your "Why" Sometimes it takes a while to see it. I've bumped my threads so you can read and see what I mean. Read the "reframing" one first. It might help. The thing is, we don't overcome by gutting it out. By trying not to do whatever. In your case ...porn. It doesnt work like that. You have to literally work through your thought life (because that's where the ritual chain of porn starts) It sounds to me like you don't really hate porn. You likely don't believe it is wrong. Until you do, you won't kick it.

But don't focus on what you should not do. Focus on loving. If you love your wife, you won't want to use porn. Love is a verb. It's not a feeling. It's what you do. You need to practice loving her. You haven't loved her.

Very few people are truly evil. They're broken. In pain. When you want to think of someone as subhuman, you're going to have to realize, that is a lie. Broken though? Sure. And so you must understand it (and pray for them if you pray) And you must realize you are broken. The word holy is a religious word that means whole. You have to try for wholeness.

You have the tools. Use them.

[This message edited by Maia at 9:15 AM, December 30th (Wednesday)]

She has no reason to forgive you. You aren't sorry about what you've done to her. You are sorry for the consequences you have had to deal with.

You sound like one of those people that no matter how demonstrably wrong they are, they still genuinely think they are right. No matter how much pain they inflict on other people, they are still the victim. Until you can figure that out, there is nothing to work with here.

You can go ahead and put me down in the enemy camp, but please understand that YOU are your own biggest enemy. YOU are the one preventing yourself from having a healthy and fulfilling relationship. YOU will never be happy (unless of course you change).

I am so sad for you because it is such a waste of an existence. Good luck being always right, the victim and alone.