SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi, first post here.
I am 19 months post dday3 and hopefully in R. I am married 23 years have two teenage boys.
My W had an affair with a childhood sweetheart. She actually told me in about march 2023 that he has been in touch because his dad has passed away. My father has also passed way so I just said that is sad, I didn’t think I had to say to not stay in touch.
Dday1 about a year later I had totally forgotten about him getting in touch. My gut feeling was screaming something was wrong. Treating me like a friend not a husband. I tried looking at her phone but WhatsApp was facelocked. It took about 3 weeks trying when one day I wasn’t going straight to work as i had a dental appt so she was in the shower. I was still home (her phone never left her) . I got on to WhatsApp and saw evidence. I confronted her, she said they had only been in touch a short while and she would end it and stay with me.
Dday2 about 5 months later and she was starting to carry her phone all the time. Again gut feeling screaming something wrong. She hid things well she was careful when she sent messages , only used. WhatsApp and deleted them all. However I went through the phone bill and noted all calls to numbers I didn’t recognise. When my gut said something was wrong one of the things I would do was phone the numbers. This day one of them went through to his work voicemail… busted.
She again promised me she would end it. I was persuaded to try again.
Dday3 a number of months later and my gut feeling was at times ok but at others times my "spidey senses" would tingle. This time a VAR in the car caught her. The discussions with him were quite stained and I felt their relationship was not great. Rightly or wrongly i have given her one more chance.

So my question is that now 19 months later my gut feeling at times says something is off. Now maybe it could be that my gut is saying I should have given up on the marriage?
One of the things I did before was keep notes on what I thought was suspicious and there are things now.
Thank you for your time, my question is can your gut feeling be wrong maybe because I spent so long on high alert previously?

I’d trust your inner voice. You have not been wrong so far.

Thanks for The reply 1stwife.
Through all of this she has never really admitted anything other than when I have irrefutable evidence. After dday3 she did tell me a lot of things she hadn’t before, secrets he wouldn’t want me to know and a lot of the story. That said even with that effort to take me in to the circle of trust she could still always change her mind and go back to him!
I think what I am asking is, if I follow my gut feeling what does that look like. I have told her that my gut feeling is that something is going on but she just reassures me that isn’t the case. The only think I can think of is to suggest a separation or D but that would be just on gut feeling. Is it enough to suggest separation?
The VAR hasn’t picked anything up but I believe she knows it is there now.

OP

You're standing on the tracks and an Express Passenger train is coming. Are you going to stay on the tracks?

Or get off the tracks to save yourself?

Utoob has some gross videos of what happens to bodies that don't get off tracks in time-

You have enough.

First of all, you don’t need anything. Maybe Ireland has different laws, but most places have "no fault" divorce. So you can divorce for any reason or no reason at all.

Second of all, you have a great reason. She cheated on you!! You’ve had 3 D-Days. She put you through, what 8 months of False R? All of that add up to very good reasons to separate or get a D.

You’re miserable right now. She cannot or will not give you the reassurances you need to feel safe in the relationship. She’s been dishonest for the past 3 years (minimum) and to this day you don’t have the full truth. Is this her first affair? Do you even know?

Have you exposed the affair? Does AP have a wife, and have you told her? What about her parents? Affairs thrive in secrecy, and exposure is sometimes enough to kill them off.

Is she in therapy? What is she actually doing to prove that she’s a safe and honest partner?

Something is off because she has not truly been broken or committed to recovery yet. You are in a state of torture and she sees the consequences are little to nothing.

1) Have you informed spouse of affair partner?

2) Have you informed her family?

3) Have you spoke to a lawyer?

4) Is she in therapy with a Betrayal Trauma Specialist who will help hold her accountable?

Her pattern has been lying so you are conditioned. You gut is preparing for another lie to protect yourself.

So in theory, if she truly did turn and end it and commit to recovery, your gut would likely still feel off. This could only stop after she earned trust which takes consistency over time.

Yes. Gut feelings can be wrong. That's why the scientific method exists and we don't rely on gut feelings when seeking as close to an approximation of absolute truth as we can achieve. It's the most logical way to find it.

However, this isn't science. It's not logical. You're in the realm of emotion and emotions are messy and don't always make sense. Gut feelings have been pretty accurate for many here on the forums. You subconsciously pick up on things that don't add up and they eat at you. How accurate was your gut feeling the last few times?

I gotta say, the fact that she keeps lying to you and you keep forgiving it does not incentivize her to be honest and stop what she's been doing. It seems a little bit pick me dance-y. That never works. You have to stop being afraid of losing her if you do or say the "wrong" thing. You already lost her when she cheated on you. If you questioning or being upset over her actions causes her to leave then just how strong is the relationship? Do you want to stay with her if you feel like you have to walk on eggshells and deal with these humiliating discoveries for the rest of your life?

It's counter intuitive, but sometimes to save a relationship you have to be willing to let it go. You don't want to be with someone who isn't committed to you. Sometimes a 2×4 upside the head is what it takes to snap a wayward spouse out of the fog. When I called divorce lawyers in front of my wife it changed everything.

It turns out she didn't want to lose the marriage and was willing to do whatever it took. Including going no contact and being honest with me. I know her passcodes and have unfettered access to all of her devices and she's completely comfortable with it now. She wasn't before. It took a hard dose of reality to get her there. I don't know your wife. It may not go that way for you, but there are many other stories here with similar results. I'd rather risk losing her than live in infidelity. That should be your goal. To get out of infidelity.

There are 2 paths for that. Divorce or reconciliation. Reconciliation has to be built on truth and transparency. If not, then divorce is the other option. Not the preferred option, but it's better than living with a cheater. You have to find your resolve and force some action. I hope you do, and I hope you get the outcome you want, but in either case you have to decide you're getting out of infidelity one way or another. For me, that decision saved my marriage. And my sanity.

[This message edited by Pogre at 1:45 PM, Monday, July 27th]

Why do you need a Gut feeling for Chasing? She's proven to be a serial cheater. If she's breathing, she's cheating!

One of the conditions for reconciliation should be a commitment by the wayward to transparency. Access to all devices, accounts and social media with all passwords with no hesitation or resentment to you looking.

Was that freely offered and is it ongoing? Does she make your security in the marriage a priority?

Thanks for all the support and advice.
To fill in some of the gaps:
At dday2 I sent my wife’s ap messages warning to stay away. I tried calling him but he wasn’t able to answer or call me back at any stage, I suspect a backbone issue.
At dday 3 I was ready to leave. I was persuaded that it was me that she really wanted. I called him but again he lacked the manhood to answer. I had tried to reach his wife on FB but he intercepted the message and blocked me. I then sent him messages that I wouldn’t be stopped and that if needs Be would message her dad to get through to her. I think at this point he accepted that his actions could not be hidden and he let her know he had been having an affair. I did get to speak to her but I believe he is a bit of a narcissist and very soon it appears he convinced her that I was the bad guy so she is no longer a trusted ally.
I have a solicitor fully in the know and he is a good friend as well so will be there if needed.

He then sent messages to my mother, sisters and my wife’s family that really painted him in a bad picture.
As far as transparent goes I would have access to all accounts but note between dday2 and dday3 a new separate hidden phone was involved new accounts and everything so access to accounts has limited value.

I concede that my guy feeling could be paranoia but obviously worrying enough to come here and seek friendly advice.

So does your wayward make you feel prioritized or tolerated? Is she working on herself, reading books like How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair and Not Just Friends? How does she support your healing? How does she demonstrate that she wants to rebuild your marriage?

Hi asc1226
Yea she for make an effort I would say a lot of the time. At dday3 she committed to no contact but also wrote a letter to the AP asking for no contact and for him to stay away. Also at dday3 things really came to a head with people finding out. The AP sent some nasty measures to our family.
She has been tearing up on his to support me and did do things.
I think the previous deception has left me very untrusting.

So AP sent nasty messages to your WW’s family after she told him not to contact her anymore? Probably that did burn bridges with her. Who knows.

Look, you haven’t given us a ton of information to work with here. But based on what you’ve disclosed, I would say that it’s perfectly reasonable for you to not trust her. All affairs are rotten, but I consider False Reconciliation to be an act of cruelty. She saw your pain, and decided to pretend to be loyal while taking the affair further underground. Maybe it wasn’t malicious, but it certainly demonstrated a selfishness and lack of empathy that is hard to forgive. I understand about limerence and addiction etc., but the damage done is extreme. And she did it twice.

So you have ample reason not to trust her. You tried that and you got burned, repeatedly.

Honestly, it’s pretty hard to recommend staying married to someone you can’t trust. You’re feeling the hyper-vigilance. It’s making you crazy. She still hasn’t fully come clean, has she? She’s still hiding things, no?

There’s nothing you can do to make her be a decent person. She either commits fully to a life of integrity, and proves to you that she’s fanatically committed to being an honest person, or you walk. Watery eyes is not enough, not by a long shot. Your gut is telling you the same.

Heads up this is going to be a post that could be difficult for you.

First multiple Ddays over a long period of time. 🚩

Second continued lying and false Reconciliation is another 🚩

Third the lack of accountability and integrity from your cheating wife is another 🚩

Fourth her providing a long drawn out period of telling the truth is again a 🚩

You believe she knows if the VAR so she is very careful about what she says 🚩

You have NO REASON to trust her after a very long period of time. I don’t know if she’s cheating right now or not. Hell she could have found a new affair partner (AP). And she seems very skilled at getting you to believe her (manipulation and gaslighting seems to be her thing).

If you want to D or S, please do. She doesn’t need to be actively cheating. You can stand up for yourself in a way that eliminates the need for any justification for your decision.

Simply put, the marriage no longer works for you and you have nothing left to give to her in the way of a happy and mutually beneficial marriage. Therefore you have decided to D or S.

I hope this helps you.

PS I dare say without professional counseling your wife is not going to change. And she has to want to go to counseling and commit to it. If she goes to "appease" you then she’s not really interested in putting in the work to make any meaningful progress.

Gut feeling can be wrong about details but that’s simply because the gut feeling has no words, it’s just an alerting system that tells you something is not right. You then make up hypotheticals about "why do I feel this?" And those could be wrong.

But that instinct is so hardwired into humans that very rarely is wrong if ever. It’s a feeling born from subconsciously picked up signals from the environment.

It kept us our species alive for millennia.

Is not wrong, if it says something it’s off, then something is off.

You just have to figure out what, and it seem you already have some good idea.

Chasingstars, first off, trust your instincts. Your gut is a finely tuned survival radar built on subtle shifts in her behavior, body language, and energy that your brain is picking up on even if you don't have fresh, hard data yet. You were right on D-Day 1, D-Day 2, and D-Day 3. You aren't "crazy" or "paranoid"—you are reacting logically to years of deliberate deception, secret phones, and false reconciliation.
As you try to make sense of where you stand, it is worth asking yourself—and gently asking her, if you don't already know—was the affair physical? Further, what was the actual emotional depth here? When you listened to those VAR recordings, did they sound like a couple? Did she ever express love for him, or was she checking out of the connection even then? An affair that crosses physical boundaries or involves deep romantic attachment—especially when wrapped in secret burner phones and years of calculated lying—creates a much deeper level of betrayal. If that line was crossed, true reconciliation becomes an exponentially steeper uphill climb, and you need to be honest with yourself about whether that is a mountain you even want to scale.
That brings up another crucial question: Are you sure you even want reconciliation with someone who has so brazenly broken your trust time and time again? You do not need a fresh, active D-Day 4 as permission to walk away. Three D-Days, a burner phone, and years of trickle-truth are more than enough. You are fully allowed to decide that the sheer weight of the damage done is lethal to the marriage, regardless of what she claims to be doing today.
It is entirely okay for you to sit back and make her do the heavy lifting to earn your trust back. Reconciliation isn't supposed to be you constantly playing detective, checking VARs, and stressing over whether your gut is playing tricks on you. That is an exhausting, soul-crushing way to live. Put the entire burden of proof on her to show she is safe. If she isn't actively, enthusiastically doing that work, remember that you can walk away at any time. Giving her a chance doesn't mean signing a contract that traps you forever.
Finally, you may have to accept the painful reality that she simply may not have the moral strength or integrity to ever be a safe partner. That is not a reflection of your worth, nor is it a failure on your part—it is a core character deficit in her. You cannot love, monitor, or manage someone into becoming an honest person. She either possesses the internal fortitude to fix herself, or she doesn't. Take a step back out of the investigator role and focus on what you need to feel safe and sane again. If she can't provide that, you have every right to save yourself.

^ best advice!

Read that again and again and again.