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Spiralling

Topic is Sleeping.
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 user4578 (original poster member #84572) posted at 11:01 PM on Wednesday, August 7th, 2024

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[This message edited by user4578 at 11:23 PM, Wednesday, August 7th]

posts: 173   ·   registered: Mar. 7th, 2024   ·   location: UK
id 8845325
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 user4578 (original poster member #84572) posted at 1:52 PM on Thursday, August 8th, 2024

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[This message edited by user4578 at 7:40 PM, Tuesday, August 20th]

posts: 173   ·   registered: Mar. 7th, 2024   ·   location: UK
id 8845361
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crazycatlady ( member #12849) posted at 4:09 PM on Thursday, August 8th, 2024

The google search is a huge red flag. he needs to come clean. He lost all his privacy rights when he cheated, that's all on him.
The roller coaster of infidelity spirals, loops, goes backwards, and forwards. It's a disgusting sickening ride.
We are all here for you.

Love all, trust a few. Do wrong to none.William Shakespeare "All's Well That Ends Well"D-Day: Nov 30, 2006"For I have sworn thee fair, and thought thee bright, who art as black as hell, as dark as night." William Shakespeare

posts: 1868   ·   registered: Dec. 4th, 2006   ·   location: Etherville
id 8845369
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NowWhat106 ( member #35497) posted at 8:55 AM on Friday, August 9th, 2024

Crazycatlady is right: you continue to find red flags and lies of omission. And we all know that every one of them sends a BS spiraling.

Oh sister, I’m sorry to write you an essay every time I post, but I just see so much of my own tendencies in you and your relationship with your WH. You are really doing well and making progress with every little aha moment that you have along the way. The more time you can give yourself without being focused on him, the more clearly you will see and love yourself, and the more you will understand the life that you’ve been living. Looking back with new information and insight is a big part of the post A journey.

It is painful and difficult and also ultimately, super important to understand better how you got here and what YOU need to change going forward to take better care of you. It can’t be said enough that only he can change him, and he has to really, really want to be different from what he is to do that because it is f-ing hard and painful. And waywards have made a life out of avoiding the hard and painful truths. But your journey now is to heal you and to go forward treating yourself better and healthier.

I read something the other day that said something like ‘I wonder how many mothers have realised that they overcompensate and do as much as they can to stop their husbands resenting their lives’ and I felt like it knocked the wind out of me.

Ugh. I don’t know about anyone else, but that quote is triggery as all get out for me. My WH actually told people that having kids ruined our marriage. It wasn’t that he didn’t love our kids—he just resented me paying attention to them and expecting him to be my, um, partner and adult support instead of my first and most important child. And there I was running my ass off trying to be everything to everyone.

But HE was busy complaining to his AP about how he had no time to himself to do things that were important to him, poor muffin. He would literally come home from work and lay in the middle of the living room floor with headphones on, oblivious to the world. Meanwhile, having taken care of our kids all day to save us daycare and, I don’t know, actually be with my kids, I would then be getting ready to go to work all evening teaching college students and hoping that he wasn’t sleeping in the middle of the floor while my toddlers set the house on fire.

His resentment of me not indulging his every horrible habit and pursuit and focus on keeping him happy like I did before the kids were born, was his huge excuse for having an A. He never quite got around to feeling differently in his heart of hearts even though he did a lot of mopey, sad, I’m-a-terrible-person shame spiraling, it ultimately started to feel like that too was just trying to manipulate people (including me) to feel sorry for him. And i just didn’t have it in me anymore to feel bad for how hard it was to be him.

BUT, even with all of that realization (you know, the kind of realizations that keep occurring to you when you read quotes like that or realize that you’re afraid to express your actual feelings to the person who is supposed to be your most trusted friend?), it was hard for me to just speak the unvarnished truth to him.

First, I had spent years protecting him from hard truths (for example, hey dude, you act like staying home with your family will break up the Beatles. You’re in a freaking cover band in middle age.) and having to feel difficult feelings. It was so very ingrained in me that his feelings were much more important than my own and that he was much less able to handle life’s difficult and unexciting responsibilities than I was. He didn’t have to do anything to make me feel bad for demanding equal time. I didn’t demand it of MYSELF. I conceded my own space before it was asked.

That truth really got me when I realized it. I hardly knew how to demand personhood status from my own H. And I felt guilty for doing so, like it would be taking something from HIM. This was grossly unhealthy for our whole family. It was a bad example to our kids. And it truly reinforced the worst in him, to everyone’s detriment.

And when I looked back, I saw the things that you are seeing now: there were a thousand little selfishnesses and self-indulgences and dismissively disrespectful behaviors in him, and a thousand self-negating, peace-keeping behaviors in me. And honestly, in every other area of my life, I was a strong, assertive, bad-ass. But I was raised and groomed to be the kind of wife that I was in the same way that he was groomed and raised to be how he was and to find someone who would enable his worst tendencies.

The result was I was completely invested in preserving our family at any cost, and he was disconnected and unable to invest in anything but indulging whatever ego boost or external validation or confidence-boosting role-play that made him feel important and special.

This all may or may not be true of your WH. The most likely is that he is his own unique bundle of selfish self-indulgence, and you and your relationship have your own unique idiosyncrasies, but so many of us on this site are part of the self-sacrificing invested half of the relationship, while our wayward spouses were/are on the less-invested, self-focused half. And many can not find the motivation to completely let go of those completely ingrained and almost subconscious settings in their psyches.

So I’ve done it again. What I really want to say right now is that you don’t know yet how what you’ve written has struck him. You can’t know until he comes home, so try not to obsess on what you don’t and can’t know. DO focus on continuing to think and examine and especially to notice and honor your feelings. Quiet time without the noise and anxiety of a wayward’s presence are invaluable.

You do know that you’ve found a couple of other hidden truths that he didn’t mention to you. In my case, I just kept finding and finding little shit like this that my WH would dismiss as irrelevant or unimportant. He would try to turn it back on me (why are you still spying on me?) or tell me I was paranoid over nothing. He couldn’t seem to get that every lie and "omission," no matter how stupid or unimportant he thought it was, every lie degraded our relationship and made me respect him less. Everything that he hid after the A, even if it wasn’t A related, accumulated to make me understand that sneaking and lying were a part of him that he had something invested in that he wasn’t willing to give up. That was it for me. After his A, I couldn’t live waiting for the next big or small shoe to drop all the time.

As much as you can, let him go right now. Try to feel what it’s like not to care if he’s going out, not to care if he’s drinking or anything else. Let yourself feel what peace could be like if you didn’t have to live with the fear. Because ultimately you don’t if you choose not to. Whatever you ultimately decide, you should take your time to understand the real truth of what each choice means for you and your kids going forward.

Sending you all these words, lol, and a huge hug of support and strength. Do what you need to for you and the kids.

Me BS
Him WS
LTEA with old HS GF from 25+ years ago
DD #1: 10/6/2011
DD #2: 10/21/2011
2DS under18
My marriage didn’t survive but I did

posts: 648   ·   registered: May. 2nd, 2012
id 8845409
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 user4578 (original poster member #84572) posted at 9:21 PM on Friday, August 9th, 2024

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[This message edited by user4578 at 7:41 PM, Tuesday, August 20th]

posts: 173   ·   registered: Mar. 7th, 2024   ·   location: UK
id 8845555
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NowWhat106 ( member #35497) posted at 1:51 AM on Sunday, August 11th, 2024

I’m so sorry about your son’s thumb. I hope that he’s feeling better on all fronts. It breaks my heart to hear that your kids are taking on trying to make him want to be at home. Honestly, the effect on our kids is always the hardest thing to take. It was just unfathomable to me that my kids’ dad wasn’t ready to move heaven and earth to be the dad that my kids’ deserved. It’s so hard.

I’m thinking about you over this weekend. You’ve done an amazing job in a situation you didn’t ask for or deserve either. You are being a great mom for your kids.

Knowing what you need and want is the best way to prepare for him coming back in the midst of uncertainty about what he’s going to say and how he’ll react. It’s important for you to remember that the ultimate decision isn’t his—it’s yours. He may decide that he wants to try, but you get to say if you still want that or if it’s more peaceful and safe for you to move forward on your own. You have found two additional omissions while he’s been gone. You probably haven’t learned the last difficult truth.

Many waywards do panic and say that they’ll do anything out of fear, but it can’t be said enough that the work of really changing and becoming a person who joyfully engages with his family and partner rather than wishing he was on the road again without all the responsibility—that’s another thing altogether. It takes a lot of time and a lot of hard introspection and self-awareness, usually supported by no-nonsense counseling.

One worrisome thing that you mention often (and that I know was/is one of my weaknesses that was often exploited) is that he knows that he can convince, manipulate, work his way around your objections and concerns and has done it over and over throughout your relationship. Focussing on yourself and where you want to change as you work on recovery, I’ll say again that standing firm for yourself and your kids is an important one. I know that even when i started working on this, I would still find myself having allowed him to deflect or manipulate or turn things around on me almost without me noticing sometimes. It’s a hard one to manage when it’s such an ingrained communication pattern for both of you. Believe me, I know.

At any rate, I hope that you and the kids are relaxing and enjoying the peace this weekend. Whatever happens Monday, you are strong enough to regroup, adjust, and move forward into a better future. You’ve got this. We’re here to support you, whatever you decide is best for you and your kids.

Me BS
Him WS
LTEA with old HS GF from 25+ years ago
DD #1: 10/6/2011
DD #2: 10/21/2011
2DS under18
My marriage didn’t survive but I did

posts: 648   ·   registered: May. 2nd, 2012
id 8845595
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 user4578 (original poster member #84572) posted at 11:56 AM on Sunday, August 11th, 2024

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[This message edited by user4578 at 7:41 PM, Tuesday, August 20th]

posts: 173   ·   registered: Mar. 7th, 2024   ·   location: UK
id 8845606
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crazycatlady ( member #12849) posted at 4:44 PM on Sunday, August 11th, 2024

You are headed in the right direction. Godspeed and good luck.

Love all, trust a few. Do wrong to none.William Shakespeare "All's Well That Ends Well"D-Day: Nov 30, 2006"For I have sworn thee fair, and thought thee bright, who art as black as hell, as dark as night." William Shakespeare

posts: 1868   ·   registered: Dec. 4th, 2006   ·   location: Etherville
id 8845614
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NowWhat106 ( member #35497) posted at 5:33 AM on Monday, August 12th, 2024

Thinking of you tonight and sending you the very best energy for tomorrow, user4578.

You’ve got this. We’re all here for you. Hugs of peace and strength.

Me BS
Him WS
LTEA with old HS GF from 25+ years ago
DD #1: 10/6/2011
DD #2: 10/21/2011
2DS under18
My marriage didn’t survive but I did

posts: 648   ·   registered: May. 2nd, 2012
id 8845649
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crazycatlady ( member #12849) posted at 6:17 PM on Monday, August 12th, 2024

Thinking of you.
Be brave and love on your babies.

Love all, trust a few. Do wrong to none.William Shakespeare "All's Well That Ends Well"D-Day: Nov 30, 2006"For I have sworn thee fair, and thought thee bright, who art as black as hell, as dark as night." William Shakespeare

posts: 1868   ·   registered: Dec. 4th, 2006   ·   location: Etherville
id 8845684
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WoodThrush2 ( new member #85057) posted at 7:36 PM on Monday, August 12th, 2024

May God give you wisdom. I pray he shows you his heart is wholly for you, and is willing to do anything to make amends, and give you and your children the husband and father they need. The Lord can do that....He deals with the heart.

🙏

posts: 32   ·   registered: Jul. 29th, 2024   ·   location: New York
id 8845691
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 user4578 (original poster member #84572) posted at 11:18 PM on Monday, August 12th, 2024

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[This message edited by user4578 at 7:41 PM, Tuesday, August 20th]

posts: 173   ·   registered: Mar. 7th, 2024   ·   location: UK
id 8845705
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crazycatlady ( member #12849) posted at 11:25 PM on Monday, August 12th, 2024

Major red flags everywhere. Let him have the kids while you make your plan. Download his phone too. Damn.

Well, others will have advice as well as mine. We are here for you.

[This message edited by crazycatlady at 11:30 PM, Monday, August 12th]

Love all, trust a few. Do wrong to none.William Shakespeare "All's Well That Ends Well"D-Day: Nov 30, 2006"For I have sworn thee fair, and thought thee bright, who art as black as hell, as dark as night." William Shakespeare

posts: 1868   ·   registered: Dec. 4th, 2006   ·   location: Etherville
id 8845706
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NowWhat106 ( member #35497) posted at 11:32 PM on Monday, August 12th, 2024

You’ve been heard. I know exactly how this feels, and sadly, I now how very, very, very long it can continue like this since I just kept waiting and kept finding shit. It just never stopped. Secrecy and lies are the bigger killer of the trust and openness needed for a partnership. It’s impossible to ever feel safe after an A and the discovery of all the lies if they won’t give up guarding secrets and hiding.

In a way, this is a gift. He’s not pretending that he’s going to be any different. He’s not making a solid try for it even in early days.

Hang in there. You can do this. Forgive yourself if you lose it or let your guard down or hope or any of the million other emotional storms that come with all of this. Keep your attention on your kids.

One day, one hour, one minute at a time, the time will pass until the summer break ends. Try to get away as much as you can and do things that feed your soul and body.

This is just one of the worst things that any of us has been through. There’s not a way to pretty it up. As is often said here, the only way forward is through. We’re here. Sending you a huge hug, my sister.

Me BS
Him WS
LTEA with old HS GF from 25+ years ago
DD #1: 10/6/2011
DD #2: 10/21/2011
2DS under18
My marriage didn’t survive but I did

posts: 648   ·   registered: May. 2nd, 2012
id 8845708
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WoodThrush2 ( new member #85057) posted at 1:38 AM on Tuesday, August 13th, 2024

Wake him up and talk. Really ask him to stop the games if there are any. Tell him you want to start a real life.....is he in....or no.

I cannot tell for sure based on what your update said if there are issues. I feel for you.

Maybe you could ask him to take a polygraph if he wants to stay together.

May God give you strength and wisdom.🙏

posts: 32   ·   registered: Jul. 29th, 2024   ·   location: New York
id 8845714
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 user4578 (original poster member #84572) posted at 9:41 AM on Tuesday, August 13th, 2024

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[This message edited by user4578 at 7:42 PM, Tuesday, August 20th]

posts: 173   ·   registered: Mar. 7th, 2024   ·   location: UK
id 8845734
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InkHulk ( member #80400) posted at 1:34 PM on Tuesday, August 13th, 2024

I pointed out that that’s not doing what therapy does in the way it makes you think about how you think and react to certain things. All he took from that was that I think the way he acts and behaves is all bad.

This is a textbook example of black and white, all of nothing thinking. It takes an extremely valid complaint (read Gottman if you don’t like that word, it’s actually very valuable) and flips it into a supposed attack, trying to put you on the defensive. It’s bullshit deflection, don’t take the bait.

He still doesn’t seem open to changing, still seems convinced that all the healing is on me and that he should be able to continue as normal while I do that.

My wife was largely the same for a long time. And even when she did start trying to look into herself, it was sophomoric and she STILL thought that 90% of the problem was in me.

Pretty sure our relationship will be over after I show him my list of what I want and that he will call me toxic and unreasonable and all of that stuff.

It’s up to you to be ok with that. You, good lady, are far far far more valuable than your marriage ever was, even in the best times. Don’t sacrifice your spirit, your spark, for a crushing, draining relationship. Choose yourself over your unremorseful betrayer. EVERY. DAMN. TIME.

I’m not being crazy here, that stuff is just bare minimum normal relationship stuff anyway right?
He makes me feel like I’m insane and my standards are too high and like I’m just some mean person who wants to take his life and his freedom away.

You are not being crazy, not in the slightest. Find your foundation and your true north and don’t let this betrayer fuck with your mind another day.

Praying for you.

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 2426   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8845740
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crazycatlady ( member #12849) posted at 3:13 PM on Tuesday, August 13th, 2024

He has no idea the severity of the situation. Like his band, he just thinks he needs to show up, memorize some chords and lyrics and it’s all good. But, it’s not. Life isn’t a gig. Stick to your demands. It’s going to be very hard to wake him up and to be honest, I don’t think he has the will or honesty to do the hard work. He’s like a child and you have to stick to your boundaries.
Start planning for your life without him. Don’t let his inaction and indifference cloud the truth. He is not a good partner, he is selfish, he is dishonest. I’m so sorry to write that but, it’s true.

We are here for you.

Love all, trust a few. Do wrong to none.William Shakespeare "All's Well That Ends Well"D-Day: Nov 30, 2006"For I have sworn thee fair, and thought thee bright, who art as black as hell, as dark as night." William Shakespeare

posts: 1868   ·   registered: Dec. 4th, 2006   ·   location: Etherville
id 8845751
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 user4578 (original poster member #84572) posted at 3:28 PM on Tuesday, August 13th, 2024

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[This message edited by user4578 at 7:42 PM, Tuesday, August 20th]

posts: 173   ·   registered: Mar. 7th, 2024   ·   location: UK
id 8845752
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crazycatlady ( member #12849) posted at 3:45 PM on Tuesday, August 13th, 2024

He is manipulating you. He is trying to corral you back in and make you feel guilty. Call his bluff with the truth, "yes if you don’t do what I have demanded then I don’t want you in my life anymore. It’s that simple." Then go out and do some shopping. Make yourself scarce. If your friends or family take his side so be it. You have NOTHING to be guilty about. He cheated, he is dishonest and manipulative, and you are done.

Good luck.

Love all, trust a few. Do wrong to none.William Shakespeare "All's Well That Ends Well"D-Day: Nov 30, 2006"For I have sworn thee fair, and thought thee bright, who art as black as hell, as dark as night." William Shakespeare

posts: 1868   ·   registered: Dec. 4th, 2006   ·   location: Etherville
id 8845753
Topic is Sleeping.
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