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Reconciliation :
Underground

Topic is Sleeping.
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 Howcthappen (original poster member #80775) posted at 12:48 AM on Sunday, March 3rd, 2024

Did your fWS go underground after Dday 1? How did they go underground? How did you find out? Do you think it was just the addiction withdrawal?

Three years since DdayNever gonna be the sameReconcilingThe sting is still present

posts: 225   ·   registered: Aug. 30th, 2022   ·   location: DC
id 8827012
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leafields ( Guide #63517) posted at 7:37 PM on Sunday, March 3rd, 2024

My XWH didn't really go underground. After sending the NC email, he didn't block her number from his phone. He thought she wouldn't reach out. Well, she did and he showed me the phone. I saw the name/number and had a panic attack. He goes outside and I try to calm down. I walked outside to hear him on the phone to her telling her what HER behavior had done to ME. There was another phone call between them, and I didn't look for any other instances.

I think it was because he's a dumbass. Of course, almost as soon as I decided to D, she was back in the picture.

BW M 34years, Dday 1: March 2018, Dday 2: August 2019, D final 2/25/21

posts: 3904   ·   registered: Apr. 21st, 2018   ·   location: Washington State
id 8827092
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Chaos ( member #61031) posted at 7:40 PM on Sunday, March 3rd, 2024

Yes. DDay 1 was 2017 - our then teen daughter found and told me [provided me with all the gory details including several years worth of photos, message screenshots]

2018 I found out it went underground. I'd spent the time post DDay1 watching, waiting and investigating. I logged on to his FB account one day and checked messages - and there it was. An active conversation with LTAP. So I called OBS, informed him and LTAP informed WH.

IDGAF what label you put on it - what dumb ass excuse is used for it - it wrong and it was a choice.

BS-me/WH-4.5yrLTA Married 2+ decades-2 adult children. Multiple DDays w/same LAP until I told OBS 2018- Cease & Desist sent spring 2021 "Hello–My name is Chaos–You f***ed my husband-Prepare to Die!"

posts: 3912   ·   registered: Oct. 13th, 2017   ·   location: East coast
id 8827093
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NoThanksForTheMemories ( member #83278) posted at 9:13 PM on Sunday, March 3rd, 2024

I have a complicated answer to this one. They went underground after dday1, and it was easy because I was too wrecked to check WS's devices. I have a chronic illness and I was in the middle of a work deadline, so I had no energy for it, and I figured if AP is who he wants, he can have her. He told me he "ended things with her" and was trying to R. About 2.5 months later, his behavior was getting increasingly weird, so I pushed him for the truth until he finally confessed that they were still in contact "as friends." *eyeroll* That's when I went to a lawyer, he promised to truly clean up his act, went to IC, etc., and I think truly went NC. The addiction aspect was very real (after 2.5 years), and he was often pale and shaky, like someone in withdrawal, when he would talk about the AP or the affair. That gradually went away over 6-10 months, which is the other reason I believe in the NC this time.

What is much worse (in my mind): about 4 months after the affair started, the OBS caught them on car camera! They ended things for a couple months but then started up again. They were still working together (AP was looking for a new job), and they found clever ways to get around OBS doing location tracking. They used a private Slack group, and my WS would pick AP up from a store or the gym, where she would leave her car parked. It's still hard for me to get past the fact that my WS engaged in this kind of behavior. I find it so reprehensible. I'm also mad that OBS never told me anything, so they carried on for another 2+ years until I finally found out, but that's a different matter!

The bottom line is that people will find a way if they are determined to keep the affair going - burner phones, rendezvous points, shared documents on work drives, deleting and reinstalling apps. I knew this (all 4 of us work in tech), which is the other reason I didn't try too hard to monitor WS's devices, location, etc. It would be a full time PI job to try to catch WS out.

When he truly arrived at a place of remorse (close to dday4, which was the only time I got voluntary confessions), WS started handing me his devices and asking me to look whenever I felt insecure. For a long time, he didn't want to do that, which should've been a giant red flag for me, but I was naive and wanted to believe I could trust him.

WH had a 3 yr EA+PA from 2020-2022, and an EA 10 years ago (different AP). Dday1 Nov '22. Dday4 Sep '23. False R for 2.5 months. 30 years together. Staying for the teenager.

posts: 141   ·   registered: May. 1st, 2023
id 8827098
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 Howcthappen (original poster member #80775) posted at 7:58 PM on Monday, March 4th, 2024

What is a private slack group NoThanks?

Three years since DdayNever gonna be the sameReconcilingThe sting is still present

posts: 225   ·   registered: Aug. 30th, 2022   ·   location: DC
id 8827218
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crazyblindsided ( member #35215) posted at 12:31 AM on Tuesday, March 5th, 2024

Yes my xWS took his A with MOW underground. After D-Day I caught many broken NC's including catching them in the car together with a planted voice recorder in his car. After I was in the mental hospital for a second time (after the voice recording incident) he said he ended the A and wanted to focus on the M. 2 years later the MOW reached out to me to let me know the A never ended and my xWS confirmed it. They were able to carry on by using a burner phone. I was checking constantly those 2 years and found nothing until her phone call.

fBS/fWS(me):51 Mad-hattered after DD (2008)
XWS:53 Serial Cheater, Diagnosed NPD
DD(21) DS(18)
XWS cheated the entire M spanning 19 years
Discovered D-Days 2006,2008,2012, False R 2014
Divorced 8/8/24

posts: 8910   ·   registered: Apr. 2nd, 2012   ·   location: California
id 8827260
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NoThanksForTheMemories ( member #83278) posted at 4:19 PM on Tuesday, March 5th, 2024

What is a private slack group NoThanks?

Slack is an app used for chatting, file exchange, etc., that a lot of workplaces use for secure online communication. It's kind of like Discord, if you know what that is. While Slack was developed with corporations in mind, anyone can set up a Slack group. In my WS's case, he was using the app for his work, but then he set up his own Slack group just for him and his AP.

WH had a 3 yr EA+PA from 2020-2022, and an EA 10 years ago (different AP). Dday1 Nov '22. Dday4 Sep '23. False R for 2.5 months. 30 years together. Staying for the teenager.

posts: 141   ·   registered: May. 1st, 2023
id 8827347
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ThisIsSoLonely ( Guide #64418) posted at 9:01 PM on Tuesday, March 5th, 2024

Yes I lived thought False R - the fucking nightmare that it is

The A went back to what it was 100% and went totally underground around 3-4 days after d-day 1 for a year and then for another several months about 3 months after d-day 2. First my awesome story, then my thoughts on why.

My story:

It was easy enough for them to restart initially. I was working out of state for about a year on a contract job - the A started around the 5-6 month mark of that job and I discovered/confronted him about the A at around the 9-10 month mark when I was home for a long weekend. It went like this: Home Friday night, found something that made me suspicious Saturday afternoon in one of his credit card bills which was lying, open, on the kitchen table that I was causally looking at while eating my lunch and noticed a purchase from a shop that you would only buy things for women at - normally women who were or who had been recently pregnant (eg not me). I then confirmed my suspicions by calling the shop where the purchase was made (I claimed I thought the charge was fraudulent and asked for confirmation of what the purchase was and then said "oh yeah, I forgot about that"). When he came home from work Sunday night I confronted him, asking him what he bought at that shop - to which he lied - and I then told him I knew what it was, proved it, resulting in his confession regarding the A and who it was (thankfully he was not the classic gaslighter - I got a lot more accurate info than most people do). We then fought late into the night where at some point he sent her a no-contact email at my bequest and begged for forgiveness etc, then I got up the next day (Monday) after sleeping a few hours and flew back to my job.

WH and AP were co-workers (they also both worked with the OBS, the AP's spouse - so all three worked together and WH and OBS had been very good friends - WH was in their wedding). WH took Monday off due to not sleeping Sunday night and when we talked Monday night he was already different - slightly defensive and said he needed time to think and sleep and I let him? (Yes in writing this it makes me want to punch him out - it doesn't hurt anymore (thank goodness) but it sure makes me sound dumb and for that I'm angry mad ). Apparently she was trying to call him all Monday and Tuesday but he ignored her and she didn't just stop by because she thought it was likely I was still there. So basically he was caught Sunday, didn't see her for two days, and then returned to work and she confronted him and they talked and by the end of the day they were back at it, thick as thieves with one caveat...they agreed that they would not have any more physical penetration-type sex (no vaginas, no mouthes) as for some reasons that defies logic, that made their cheating not so bad and they held up the bargain??? (And yes, I have this confirmed by literally hundreds of text messages that I had forensically recovered from WH's phone where she is counting the days since they last had physical intercourse - saying things like "I can't believe it's been 102 days since you were last inside me...." type messages or her describing in detail the last time they actually did it and begging for more, to which he would deny her, turning them both on barf barf barf ).

This went on for an ENTIRE year. I came back and took a job locally, at WH's request about and month after d-day 1. By that time they were back at it, hot and heavy minus the actual sex. Instead they transferred to sexting and video masturbation sessions where one could watch and listen to the other pleasuring themselves - they did this sometimes 2-3 times PER DAY. They would send upwards of 200 messages to each other per day replete with I love yous and other mushy shit. But only while one of them (or both) were at work and either me or the OBS were not around. If WH went to the store and AP was at work for example he would probably sit in the parking lot and masturbate for her into a video so she could watch later, after reviewing the last video of her doing the same which he would delete (I saw like 1 minute of one of these deleted videos and could not watch anymore of them). Once he was done he would go into the store and send her about 20-100 messages back and forth before going back to the parking lot and rubbing one out again for her. They also really liked doing this at work - they would sit in the break room talking and sexting each other, often with other people present. Then when one of them couldn't handle it anymore they would excuse themselves to go to the bathroom where they would masturbate and tell the other one about it while the other one was still sitting with the group (which yeah, sometimes contained the OBS). It was SO BEYOND F-ED up. Moreover, once WH was home he would block her number on his phone so that she couldn't call him or cause any interruptions, so there was no need to hide his phone or worry about my seeing anything as he deleted everything every time he came home and he blocked her. (Only when she went nuclear after d-day 2 did that no longer work as she would get burner numbers.)

But I could just tell - my gut was telling me - something was UP with him. He would be disinterested in me and more than once indicated that he was unhappy with us, but never went any further. I did not want to have to search his shit or kill myself trying to figure out what was going on - it was making me crazy. So I set him up - telling him me and a friend were going to a show about 2 hours away for the evening on a day when I new AP was off work and OBS was at work (easy enough to confirm as they are both on WH's work schedule), and when I knew my WH would have at least 2 hours free before I would return. I have find my friends on my phone so it was easy enough for him to confirm my whereabouts - and we left for the night. I turned on the record audio function on my computer which is in the living room where I figured he would sit and is always on and left. Low and behold, when he came home from work about an hour after I left he was already on the phone with her. As luck would have it, he sat right next to my computer, set his phone down next to it it, and turned it on speaker (so he would have both hands free for their sexual activities) and then they talked for the next hour, said their I love yous, and WH lied to her at least 4 times about our lack of sex life (she asked - and he answered in a lie - that we hadn't had sex for months), that I was preparing to move out (news to me - we had not talked about that at all), and that I was looking for a job out of state (lie - I had just accepted a job right down the road) and something else I can't recall. When I came home I walked in, put in my headphones and rewound back to the time when he got off work, listened to about 15 minutes of the recording, put the headhphones down, took his phone and hid it without him noticing, and then confronted him, telling him I recorded him (not how - just that I did) and reciting verbatim several things he said so he was 100% sure I indeed had heard them. First he accused me of hiring a PI, to which I said who cares how I know, and again, within 5 minutes he confessed to everything - to the whole year. to all of it. At that time I told him I was giving him 10 minutes to decide whether he was going to call OBS and tell him or if I was - he was a coward and told me to do it, which I did.

So, I caught WH the first time on 10/1/17 - I caught him the second time on 10/1/18 - exactly one year later.

Then he went NC for about 3 months, resulting in the above mentioned nuclear attack. She "won" and WH went back for more sometime around mid January 2019, but because she just would not stop with the messaging and new numbers I caught him about 6 weeks later. The A then blew up in a ball of fire a few weeks later after I sent AP, OBS, and WH an email with a pile of attachments of screenshots and emails containing some of their conversations and of WH's comments to me as well as two emails AP had written to me, which proved to the OBS what was really going on beyond a shadow of a doubt, contradicting the half-assed story given to him by AP, and proved to AP and WH that they both were liars, not just to me and OBS but to each other. Apparently it resulted in a screaming match between AP and WH in the parking lot at their work - the lies were palpable and pretty cutting on all sides. It was what would be colloquially referred to as a shitshow of epic proportion. To my knowledge OBS has NEVER said a word to WH about the A (or about much at all) and remains colloquial in the workplace. He's some kind of saint as I would have 100% lost it at some point, likely soon after I was told about that A.

We divorced as did AP and OBS eventually several years later (everyone at work knows about the A now - partially due to me but mostly due to the OBS and WH's confession to several people about it). AP and OBS and WH still work together, although due to a very weird medical condition, AP has been out for the better part of the last year and a half.

My thoughts as to why:

He thought he was in love with AP and that he was so awesome that both of us somehow needed him. That it would be so unkind to end things with me and deprive me of his awesomeness - it would hurt me too much. Then later he didn't really want either of us but felt trapped in a prison of his own making. He would effectively cut AP off, ignoring her and ending things when he wanted, and lavishing her gratitude when he would allow her back in, only to do it all over again. Me he generally disdained as he could not just cut me out so easily - and had to deal with me all the time. AND I was unhappy duh after d-day 1 and not much fun to be around. He just could not handle all that negativity and unhappiness so he would stonewall me and ignore me as best he could and go to her when she was happy - when she started pushing for more (ironic as she too was married with a very young child) he would push away. So it was the push-pull that I think he loved and hated.

He also admitted that prior to the A he hated going to work (it's not better now) and that the A made going to work more exciting. He liked the thrill of the deceit. He liked the thrill of the chase and being chased. He liked it all. To the extent all that was part of an addiction withdrawal then yes, it was that too. But I think a lot of it was self-medicating away his depression at being very trapped in a job that he hates but would be very stupid to leave from a financial perspective (its a very weird, and highly paying job with few transferrable skills to anything paying anywhere close and he has a disabled daughter who needs his medical and a certain level of $$ to live adequately), and life just not being all that exciting all of the time. He LOVED the ego kibbles and he is a bit of a narcissist so he just ate that shit up (not diagnosed with a disorder but diagnosed with high narcissistic tendencies including low empathy).

He was frustrated with me and not getting what he wanted from me, especially my being working away for a year, but never said anything about his frustration. He thought I was not interested in him and his life, failing to ask about it enough, etc. These things were true and were fodder for conversation and perhaps even counseling, but not an excuse to stick your dick between the nearest legs that will spead for you, nevertheless the legs belonging to the wife of one of your now former best friends and work mates.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 9:21 PM, Tuesday, March 5th]

You are the only person you are guaranteed to spend the rest of your life with. Act accordingly.

Constantly editing posts: usually due to sticky keys on my laptop or additional thoughts

posts: 2492   ·   registered: Jul. 11th, 2018
id 8827395
Topic is Sleeping.
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