SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I was reading a boilerplate article just now about why people cheat even when they’re in a loving relationship, and after going through the laundry list of possible reasons, it said "Many couples find that their relationship ends up better than it was before the cheating was discovered."

I’ve seen this is other places too, most notably in Not Just Friends, which helped my husband and I a lot.

So, if you’re a few years out from Dday and are on the reconciliation path, is your relationship better than before? If so, in what ways? And how did it get better?

I find myself struggling with this idea, because it’s hard to believe that will ever be the case for me, even though I wish it was. I’ve definitely seen personal growth in the process of recovery from husband’s infidelity. I’m stronger and have a better sense of myself and a more deep-seated belief in my own resilience.

But I don’t feel like my marriage is better. We’ve done a lot of healing and recovering and reconciling, and we still love each other deeply and have a strong partnership. And we’ve plumbed some depths together that we hadn’t prior to his affair. But there’s still a flatness in me—a darkness where there used to be a spark.

What about you all?

Grieving,

I'm probably not the best one to provide you any words of wisdom here, but I will say a few things I think.

I think it's a highly personal question. You and your husband are the only ones that can really answer that. I think it will take you really, really knowing what it is you want. Your Husband must be 100% on board with helping you to achieve whatever that is. Putting his preferences second in this case.

In my situation, because I was not able to really discover what I needed, I still hurt 20+ years on. I can say, unqualified, that my marriage is not in any way shape or form, better. For either of us. In my post I actually used the word "Darkness" to describe what I felt. Perhaps it's grief still. I just think it's important that you acknowledge and really dig into what you are feeling. Share it with him. The alternative is where I am. You don't deserve that.

Ugh.....begrudgingly....yes. Our marriage is better. It wasn't bad before. I thought we were happy.

What is better is that we're both more intentional with working together. That sounds a little ironic as I type it, as we share a business too. We were always good that the business stuff. Though, we weren't so great at handling relationship conflicts as they arose. We both let resentments build up. I'm not excusing what he chose. And OW, from my perspective takes so much more heat from me....because she hasn't done the work to make amends or take responsibility.

We're more intentional now with the care of each other and our marriage. I don't think that we knew that we needed that pre-affair.

It's still hard for me to accept those brief moments he shared with OW. It's hard not to get bogged in the betrayal. Betrayal aside, the A taught him....that he needed to be there for me in ways that he wasn't. Actually, I think OW once told him he wasn't very supportive of me. I hate that he learned that lesson from someone else. But, I'm glad he learned it. Because now he IS much more supportive of me. More present with our son. More invested in our day to day. It also taught me that I needed boundaries, with him. And that communicating those boundaries, might give him the opportunity to lean in to my needs. (Recovering people pleaser here)

Things are not perfect. I hate that it took THIS to get us here. But, I'm grateful for where we are.

It would be wrong to state this without mentioning how I wish we could have gotten here a different way.

I think the results are highly individualized as well.

I think my marriage is better because I have grown to be better. In the six years since my affair, I have grown boundaries, stopped people pleasing, left my job and started a career I am passionate about. I have learned to stop being passive aggressive, and say what I mean and mean what I say. I have learned to stop approaching the relationship passively as if it can just run on its own. I am intentional with all my time, and I have improved my other relationships. I am not defensive when he makes a request about my behaviors.

He had an affair too and had to make his own changes, which I won’t lost here because those are more his to talk about. But I will say that he has learned how to emotionally connect with me and has found he rather likes it.

So these days we appreciate and care for each other in a way I didn’t know I would enjoy or even that it was possible. Our marriage is joyful today. Are there parts of it that still hurt when touched? Yes for both of us. But those things come up less and less. And they would hurt worse if we weren’t together. But maybe you find yourself at the end of the individual work (or the brunt of it) and the connection work now needs to begin? I find there isn’t enough bandwidth to do both properly at once. That personal growth has to be integrated into the relationship you both vision together.

I don’t want to disregard the niggling you feel, it just depends on if that’s all it is or it’s a red flag or warming sign that you need to interpret. But it could be just a step in the phases.

I am happy we made it. I would not want to do this life with anyone else. I am sad we had to make it, and all the time that was lost to pain and confusion. Neither of us can take it back, but know the other would if they could.

[This message edited by hikingout at 5:45 AM, Tuesday, June 6th]

My marriage is immeasurably better post affair. That being said not as good as it could have been if he’d unfuxxed himself without the cheating. We were nearly empty nesters at d day and are now, 5 years later. I had always assumed (hoped?) that once the kids left we’d "fall back in love" 🤮 as they say. Not that I didn’t love him already, but raising kids, bills, stress, homework, and all life can sometimes leave little money or time left for romance (yet we managed what I felt was enough) . So, could we be where we are now if he’d never cheated? That’s impossible to say. I’d like to think not, simply to know my pain was not for nothing. I do know, had he not been so emotionally stunted to cheat in the first place, we’d have a chance at even a better marriage than what we have now. I don’t really believe in those fairytale love stories anymore. No one lives "Happily ever after". All lives experience some serious pain. 🤷‍♀️ no one knows what a reconciled marriage would be like had one never cheated. Had one never cheated, they’d not be the same person. Likely they’d have had another bookshelf of emotional baggage that led to other (likely less hurtful) behaviors. We all have them. Most of us typically deal in a much less destructive way. So the question I have been asked a few times is would we be this close if he’d never cheated? It’s like asking me if I’d have a better marriage had I married another man. Who the hell knows? He may have been the second coming or Ike Turner reincarnated. And yes, I do recognize the inconsistencies in this post…mentioning his cheating has kept us from the possibility of even a better marriage and acknowledging that we can’t ever really know if life or marriage would have been better if we or they had made different choices. 🤷‍♀️

Honestly, I think it depends. For a WS, I think it is almost always a better deal, if reconciling. I mean, they had their little selfish ego-boost for months, years sometimes, they had the sex and validation they longed for, they had the excitation, the newness plus the comfort of the BS... And now they get to work on their flaws and get a better, more transparent relationship than before. A win-win situation of some sort...

As a BS, I think even if the relationship is more transparent and better than the previous one, something's clearly broken for me. I'm working on myself now...

[This message edited by iamjack at 6:37 AM, Tuesday, June 6th]

So I am writing this one day before our D day 1 year anniversary.

It's been an extremely emotional rollercoaster of emotions for both my wonderful BS and I. Our journey and experiences massively differ and whilst this horrid experience has led to some changes in our relationship for the better it has also unveiled some really difficult ones to manage and shift. I havent written my story yet but my BS has and having read some of her posts (with her blessing) it has revealed lots I wish to change and lots i wish for her to never feel again .

So the good:-

I have always been a people pleaser, a conflict avoider and someone who requires their ego to be stroked. My BS never knew this about me (hid it very well) and always put me on a pedestal and thought I was so grounded.... and she I discovered would get jealous about that about me, not knowing the real truths....

Since this whole f***ery started I have been so much more communicative something I thought would never happen, I have been able to reveal some of the emotional scars that I have carried from childhood and have actually been able to talk about stuff....something that I have never done. My BS always used to joke I was dead inside and I actually bought into that but this has really taught me that for this to work I need to be more present and more emotionally aware and in tune with my BS. Who would also have guessed I would enjoy talking to her about all this stuff.

I also really strongly value this relationship, I know she will read this and scoff as I have not handled the whole reconciliation thing particularly well that being I have TT and have a particular issue with lying (about the A stuff, not all of it just some aspects but that's by the by. Minimising and dismissing all counts as lies) I have also at times been defensive and an absolute butt hole but I am trying and have made concerted efforts in other aspects of my life to try and alleviate some of this pain and concern for her.whilst still continuing to work on myself.

I as others have said, changed jobs (made a move to an entirely different employer and department albeit in the same role) I have come off all social media and have zero interest in it (one of my biggest triggers over the years) and just want to continue to do her proud and strive to make her proud of me.

So in all I would say that there is some good to come of all this, will this marriage work I dont know as the pain and hurt I have caused may just be too much but we both are fully wanting this and whilst it is difficult as hell and some days are better than others I can sure as hell tell her and you all that I do love this woman and I would do whatever it takes to make this work.

It just sucks that we are both here having to write on this board and read all these books etc because of my shitty actions, I wish I could have avoided all this x

I think it depends on how the relationship was before. I am almost 2 years after Dday and it is hard for me to believe, we could ever get to a place better than before his affair. We didn't have a good relationship before, we had a great one, no matter how strange that may sound given he has been fucking others for almost a decade. But I still believe what we had was special, we loved each other, we were good at comunicating, we didn't have many conflicts, but even when there were some, we handled them well. We cared for each other, invested in our relationship, took time for us even with three small kids. We supported each other through difficult times. We laughed together and cried together. He was my best friend, I trusted him with everything. I believed and still believe we had everything one could wish for in a relationship, both of us, until he started to take it for granted. Not saying any of us were perfect, but we accepted each others flaws, because in the grand scheme, they were not important. I loved him just the he was, with his imperfections and he loved me.

Today, he is trying very hard to repair the damage he has inflicted to our relationship, to show me that I am important to him, that he loves me. We still communicate well, maybe even better in a way, because nothing is left unsaid any more, even small complaints, so we are more honest with each other now. We still function well together, we still have fun, the sex is still great, technically even more so, with the newfound honesty 😀. But as you said, there is flatness in me, that has never been there before. The level of intimacy is nowhere near what we had, especially because of me, because I don't let him close, so he can't hurt me again. I am stronger than I ever was, more confident, I take no bullshit from anyone any more and I like that about me, but I also liked the naive one, who believed in fairy tales a little bit, in true love conquers all, in soulmates. I am much more cynical now, not just about us, but in general and I don't like that. When I see happy couples, my mind always races to "one of you will cheat sooner or later". Even in couples I have known for decades and believed that they found true happiness, even in my parents who have been happily married for almost half a century, I wonder if they had their relationship taintad by infidelity. So we have much work to do and I believe we can have a good relationship again, hopefully even a great one, but I don't think it will be better than before. I hope we can get to what we had. And if we do the work, I think it can be better than what I could have with anyone else, because I know myself well enough to know, if this fails, I will never open myself this much to anyone, never let anyone this close again.

[This message edited by ZetaCephei at 2:04 PM, Tuesday, June 6th]

It depends what you mean by better, it is a very personal question.

Our marriage was pretty good pre A by both our standards but dday pointed a finger to all the previously invisible cracks.

We are having a better relationship than before, no doubt traumatic events enable growth a lot of the times, we have both grown as human beings and are much more focused on each other and our marriage than before, we actively take steps to ensure we’re still happy and our marriage is thriving. Communication is great and we are actively expressing our love, gratitude but also frustration and are capable to work through tough times together rather than avoid conflict. Going together to the depths of despair and working our way out still together renewed that feeling of specialness in some ways and we are closer to each other than I thought we could ever be.

Saying that, no doubt traumatic events also leave a permanent mark. There are certain symptoms that will forever be my companion and I have learnt to manage those through therapy. Was the cost worth it? Perhaps, but it is hard not to wish sometimes to have achieved this renewed great marriage though other means, less painful.

All in all, whilst I will never be grateful for the affair happening, I am happy to admit that yes, we do have a better relationship/marriage.

ZetaCephei

But as you said, there is flatness in me, that has never been there before. The level of intimacy is nowhere near what we had, especially because of me, because I don't let him close, so he can't hurt me again. I am stronger than I ever was, more confident, I take no bullshit from anyone any more and I like that about me, but I also liked the naive one, who believed in fairy tales a little bit, in true love conquers all, in soulmates. I am much more cynical now, not just about us, but in general and I don't like that. When I see happy couples, my mind always races to "one of you will probably cheat". Even in couples I have known for decades and believed that they found true happiness, even in my parents who have been happily married for almost half a century, I wonder if they had their relationship taintad by infidelity.

I hear you... I get precisely the same feeling now. I don't want to be the bitter BS, the innocence I had, the absolute trust in her I had is gone for good. She doesn't like me to say it, but I still don't trust her 100%, and I don't think I ever will. I'm not blind.

Regarding your parents, that's funny because when the DDAY came, my mom told me she and my dad were just like friends now, that they both cheated on the other a lot, sometimes in LTA. So yeah, being cynical about all this can be normal...

[This message edited by iamjack at 10:00 AM, Tuesday, June 6th]

Tinytim1980

Since this whole f***ery started I have been so much more communicative something I thought would never happen, I have been able to reveal some of the emotional scars that I have carried from childhood and have actually been able to talk about stuff....something that I have never done.

Oh, please. The emotional scars of the WS. Why is it some people are completely incapable of working on themselves without destroying the life of others ?

"And if we do the work, I think it can be better than what I could have with anyone else, because I know myself well enough to know, if this fails, I will never open myself this much to anyone, never let anyone this close again"

This resonated with me and I think it will Mrs tinytim, it's so true as she has said many times that I have truly broken her and that if we weren't to get through this then she is done which I have really struggled to believe given how wonderful and beautiful she is.

I can only imagine all the pain she is going through and that I have created for her, something I wish I could shoulder.

Great thread Grieving!

I would tend to agree with iamjack’s first post, at least from my perspective. I feel my wife’s world is a better place. She had her fun, her adventure, her excitement all the while enjoying her husband (me) during the affair. Once the need for the affair (I pray) was over, and she pointed out things she was desperately needing from me, I made the changes to become the better husband (yes I get the whole "pick me" dance, but these were behaviors any loving husband should have been doing anyway). I own a small construction business and as such it was practically 7 days a week. I’d buy used equipment that would save me money but then have to spend hours fixing it up. This left little time for me to be "the husband" and I didn’t get to spend the quality time I should have been doing. Since then, the one employee who worked for me left me and I have found a new freedom. I can now take off days practically anytime I want, I plan day trips, we vacation more, we go on hikes, etc. I now have a much more active role in the promotion of a good relationship. So yes, for her it has to be much better. For me, it’s hard to say. I didn’t think things were really bad before. There was a lack of intimacy between us which is now back, but the damage to me is sometimes unbearable. The emotions that became unearthed through all of this are here to stay, it’s hard to describe, but things I’d have never given a second thought about now enter my head on a daily basis. I’ve always lived in the mindset that If I wrong somebody, then I need to make an effort to "make it right". She has had her fun, gotten the husband she’s always wanted back (I hope) but now i feel like I need some form of contrition (and this makes me feel like a selfish person). Yes she occasionally tells me she loves me, appreciates me, can’t imagine life without me, but like the changes I’ve made (you know, the pick me dance stuff) like the things she tells me are things every loving couple should do on a regular basis. The hole in the boat has been plugged, and now it’s going to take extra effort to bail out the water. I’m a patched boat that’s half full of water. Occasional loving comments are new sealant to the hole, but I feel like there needs to be some bailing of water. Until then I can’t speed along happily, I can only trudge through the water with this heavy burden of overload of water. Hope this makes sense. In a nutshell, some parts are better, some are worse. If I had to choose, I’d rather go back to pre affair relationship as opposed to post affair. At least then my world wasn’t loaded down daily with the shit feelings I get.

[This message edited by Copingmybest at 10:41 AM, Wednesday, June 7th]

Copingmybest,

I really feel you. When you say "I’d rather go back to pre affair relationship as opposed to post affair", I really feel that too. Because even if a lot (if not all...) of the WS will say "our relationship was deteriorating, truth is it wasn't as bad as they like to tell themselves, otherwise they would have just left instead of betraying us in the most despicable manner. Truth is THEY are the ones making the relationship go down in flames, so they can feel better having sex with somebody they didn't even know a few months before.

I would rather go back to my previous relationship. Not my previous self though, because I wasn't selfish enough. I gave her everything I could and she just acted like a spoiled little brat in return.

My question is, knowing what you know now, would you go through R again ?

If I was to go back to the day I discovered the A (or — stupid me — to the day I ALMOST discovered it, when the A was just starting), I know I wouldn't hesitate a second and leave her.

[This message edited by iamjack at 11:25 AM, Tuesday, June 6th]

Wow—I can’t say how much I appreciate these responses. So much food for thought. Many things stood out to me, but the one that hit me the hardest personally was hiking out’s comment about being at the end of individual work and needing to do the connection work. I suspect that’s where I am.

Maybe part of my issue is that connection never felt like work, pre-affair. Sure, there were times that we got busy and took each other for granted, and you don’t have a 20 year marriage without some ups and downs, but overall we actually had a great relationship in most ways.

My husband has actually put a lot of work and effort into the marriage post affair. I don’t feel like I’m in the situation some of you BS’s are in, where you feel like your WS had their fun and now has a better marriage, but you are slogging along trying to bail water (copingmybest, my heart goes out to you. What an insightful, but painful metaphor). For my husband, what fun he had in the affair has definitely been eclipsed by the terrible fallout.

Thank you again for these responses. It helps me immeasurably to hear people’s stories and experiences. It also strengthens my resolve to be proactive (thank you for that push, TheDarkness). I do actually want my marriage—I don’t think my husband or I have ever felt ambivalent about our choice to reconcile. Even in the darkest moments, when I felt like maybe reconciliation wasn’t going to work, I still felt committed to trying. So if we’re going to be together, we need to keep doing the hard work to build/rebuild something good.

Iamjack, if I could go back and redo the D day on, the night I watched their texting session, instead of sitting there, listening to her, and instantly working to better myself for her, knowing what I know now, and the pain of the last two years+, I would have instantly told her I’m out, we go NC and I would instead see how willing she would have been to fight for me. She knows what I was willing to do for her, but I still don’t really know how far she’d be willing to go for me. Currently I feel like the bare minimum that it will take to keep me she will do. Not to say that that is nothing, she’s doing some work, she just never grabbed the bull by the horns and said "I’m going to do whatever it takes to make this right". In one of my previous threads, someone mentioned (I believe it was Captain Rodger’s) that you can’t get angry or upset with your WS for not doing things that you need if you aren’t telling them what you need. I am guilty of not representing myself well, but as I gain more confidence in myself I am getting better. I just don’t want to have to be the one who leads them down the path by the hand and feeds them every bit of information needed to become a better person. If I can research and find that info, I’d rather see the efffort of my WS to do the same. The show of EFFORT would be monumental in my recovery. As I mentioned before, she been doing some reading and listening to podcast on infidelity and recovery, but I wish she’d express feeling of what, if anything, she is learning. I get bread crumbs but I desire more sharing. I’m a patient man if nothing else.

[This message edited by Copingmybest at 10:53 AM, Saturday, June 10th]

iamjack

I totally agree, my issue is that I have been so self absorbed in my own little world that I never looked at my own behaviours as being the problem. I would shift blame and redirect so to avoid having to do that work as "it's a you problem not a me problem"

Since then the actual issues have been discussed in IC and with my bs I can see where ive gone wrong all these years, I can reflect on my wrong doing and can see where I need to focus.....

Tinytim1980

iamjack

I totally agree, my issue is that I have been so self absorbed in my own little world that I never looked at my own behaviours as being the problem. I would shift blame and redirect so to avoid having to do that work as "it's a you problem not a me problem"

Since then the actual issues have been discussed in IC and with my bs I can see where ive gone wrong all these years, I can reflect on my wrong doing and can see where I need to focus.....

Thank you for acknowledging that. I wasn't trying to blame you in particular, I may have been a little harsh so please accept my apologies for that. It is a trigger for me as I've read so many times the blame shifting/victimization/justifying from WS here (and the ones I had, for over 3 months...) when really the affair is just about the WS. On another thread in "Just found out", a poor soul is implying his GF cheated because of him confronting her on a completely different subject. This makes me mad...

Copingmybest

If I can research and find that info, I’d rather see the efffort of my WS to do the same. The show of EFFORT would be monumental in my recovery. As I mentioned before, she been doing some reading and listening to podcast on infidelity and recovery, but I wish she’d express feeling of what, if anything, she is learning. I get bread crumbs but I desire more sharing. I’m a patient man if nothing else.

Same here... Even worse maybe. Did she read the books the therapist asked her to ? Noooo... Did she do it, after I begged her to read the love languages ? Noooo... Did she look out for infidelity forums, after I told her I wrote a lot and learned a lot on these, wether in our native language or in english ? Noooo... But hey, she has put on SOME efforts, so I guess all is well...

[This message edited by iamjack at 1:09 PM, Tuesday, June 6th]

Honestly, I think it depends. For a WS, I think it is almost always a better deal, if reconciling. I mean, they had their little selfish ego-boost for months, years sometimes, they had the sex and validation they longed for, they had the excitation, the newness plus the comfort of the BS... And now they get to work on their flaws and get a better, more transparent relationship than before. A win-win situation of some sort...

This hit home for me, and probably was one of the reasons I didn’t put much effort into reconciling. Probably shortsighted, but I felt that efforts made by me was a tacit approval of what she did. Why would I reward her for her betrayal by subjecting myself to years of work to be a better partner, when while not perfect, I was pretty good. And my flaws certainly didn’t warrant her doing what she did.

Our MC pushed the mantra that the affair could bring us closer. My EX clung to this like a life preserver. I wasn’t buying it for a second. Previous to spending time here, the idea of a marriage being better after an affair was something I could not contemplate as ever happening. I have seen to many here that do have better marriages so that has proven my thinking wrong. But what does seem to be a theme in when the marriage gets better, is it was pretty crappy before, or one of the partners had some serious issues that got addressed in the reconciliation process.

None of that was applicable to me, so I’m positive that had we continued, and even if I gave it more effort, things for us woukd have never been as good.

iamjack

Oh trust me I wasnt thinking you were being harsh, the one thing I can say whole heartedly is that I have never tried to shift the blame onto the BS. My issues are my issues .... just I never shared them or even thought for one minute I needed to worry about them

Sorry for all the crap you have had and are experiencing, no one should have to go through all this.