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I received an apology letter from my WW’s AP, who’s workplace affair with my wife ended 17 years ago. The letter wasn’t out of the blue. It came as a result of actions I took. Specifically, I built and ranked a website to the #1 spot in Google for his name. On the site, it outlined all of the sleazy things he had done and generally just what I thought of him and his actions. This was therapeutic and allowed me to feel heard, but also it was done because he never had any meaningful consequences happen to him, or so it would seem from the outside. I wanted to expose him to his wife, kids, family, potential future employers or lovers. If you're thinking my focus is on the wrong person, it’s not. Me and my wife have processed this ad nauseum and I do place the majority of blame on her, however, this guy was extremely proactive in what he was doing and groomed my wife with clear forethought of action and a very deep understanding of how to exploit female psychology. The anger I’ve had for him has been very toxic and it was my goal with this entire thing to help me with that one aspect of my recovery.

A few months later I was eventually contacted by his wife, who had found out about the site from him, who had heard about it from one of his family members who came across it. Every member of his family saw the website. I agreed to a phone call with the wife and she told me that they were in the midst of a divorce after 15 years of marriage and 2 kids (by coincidence and unrelated to the website). What had seemed from the outside to be the picture perfect life for him (something which has continually bothered me) was actually not. He hadn’t held down a job since 2010 and his wife, who was the breadwinner of the family, grew so tired of his leeching and laziness that she filed for divorce this Summer and is now seeing a boyfriend with him having moved out of their 2 million dollar home into an apartment. She also said she had tried to leave him in 2014 only to be talked out of it, so his marriage had been in a bad place for a long time. I feel absolutely no shame in being very pleased by all of this and it has helped me to know that karma got this guy. She eventually got to the reason she was calling, which was to ask that I remove the site as favor to her because she didn’t want her kids finding it and having to see their Dad in such a shameful way. She said had it not been for her kids, she would have had no issues with it.

I found myself liking her and wanting to help her, but I told her it didn’t feel right to me that someone else fix this for him. So I told her that if he wrote me an apology letter that felt genuine that I would consider it. I had also been going back and forth with myself on removing the site anyway, since to some degree it was a weight on me. If an apology might do something more for me, why not go for it.

Two days later I received his apology via email. While some of it is precisely the stuff I was hoping to hear, other parts I found angering. It seems as if he is still romanticizing the affair in his mind, as expressed by his comments that he "could not control" his attraction to my wife, which I assert is BS. He never should have allowed himself to become attracted to my wife in the first place, but he went ahead and said what he should have done is basically let my wife know he was attracted to her and then let her decide what to do about our marriage without it going further. So essentially what he feels he should have done is still attempt to steal my wife, but only go about it in a slightly more respectful way. He apparently doesn’t understand the concept of not flirting with, gossiping with, or sharing personal information with taken women, which has been a pattern of his based on things both my wife and his wife told me.

I really want to respond with my thoughts and end with telling him that I’d like it to be our last correspondence. I know that a back and forth communication would do more harm than good, but I think a final response would be the culmination of my efforts to feel heard and enable me to release a lot of the toxicity I’ve held towards him and in essence get in the last word.

I'd like to make sure I’ve thought about all aspects completely and wanted to get the collective wisdom of SI prior to taking any action, so please give me your take on his letter of apology. If you would like to know more about this guy or what happened, the full story is in my bio.

"My Apology to You"

[Redacted],

Even before your website, I had wanted to reach out to you for years, but I didn't because ironically, I feared it would be triggering for you and perhaps best to let sleeping dogs lie. But this is something you not only seem open to, but requested so now I can unburden myself and hopefully ease some pain for both of us (coincidentally, it would seem we both are going through very difficult times marriage wise if that makes you feel any better).

I will start with the simple, I am sorry for what happened between you, me, and your spouse 17 years ago in [redacted]. I cannot control that I was attracted to [redacted] at the time, but what I have come to understand is that I should not have pursued or allowed a romantic relationship to form until she made a final decision about the direction of her marriage; people are free to enter and leave relationships as they see fit but if I could go back in time, I would have waited until she either did or did not divorce, and give you a chance to address your marriage, and regret that I did not give you that courtesy. Marriage means a lot to me now, and you now know that I am no stranger to marital difficulties as well, and we both know that it hurts far more than clueless single guys in their 20s could ever imagine. For the entire romantic relationship I had with [redacted] while she was still with you, I deeply apologize.

I do not feel the same way about you today that I did back then, I am trying to be a more compassionate person and it would seem that like myself at the moment, you too are in pain and perhaps have occasionally been for many years over this ordeal. I can't tell you how to process any emotions, but hopefully a couple things to keep in mind might help:

(1) [redacted], when truly pushed, chose you; despite what you may think, I was very sad when she chose you over me (I remember it was the night of hurricane Katrina, and crying nonstop as the levies broke) despite now knowing I should have waited until you had a chance to weigh in on sustaining the marriage. I'm sure she's glad she did, and I am too since it opened me up to [his wife] later. But again, you were her unequivocal choice for a long term partner not me.

(2) The person who intervened in your marriage (me), is not happy he did. I do not consider it a win at all, and your pain over the matter does not bring me any satisfaction, quite the contrary I am writing this in detail because the world would be a tiny bit better if two guys with unfortunate connections to each other managed to put that unfortunate history together to rest.

Finally, know that my only lingering emotion in all this was towards you: one of regret. After December 2005, I never contacted [redacted], nor had any hope of one day pursuing her. I married the next girl after [redacted], built a family with her, and until 2022 remained married and focused only on her. As time has gone on, and I've hopefully become a better person, my only thoughts about [redacted] revolved around hoping that you two were happy, healthy and successful. You appear very successful career wise, but I am hoping with this note of apology you can also be successful with happiness in your marriage, general outlook, or whatever new direction you want to take.

You are welcome to call me if you think it wouldn't be more harm than it's worth, I will say the same things to you on the phone that I am saying now, but again only you know if that will help or not. You will always know the name [redacted], and I will always know the name [redacted], but I am hoping that after this note and/or phone call, we can one day hear these respective names without feeling a sense of dread or pain, but rather one of resolution and healing.

I truly wish there had been a scenario where I could have still met my wife, had my kids and had none of what happened between us happen.

[redacted]

EDIT AND CLARIFICATION REGARDING THE WEBSITE: The site was taken down as soon as I received his apology.

[This message edited by gainingclosure at 5:49 PM, Tuesday, November 1st]

Wow, sounds therapeutic for sure. I'm thinking I should do this.

I hate knowing that I just found out 15 years later and that she is still out there intentionally preying on and seducing married and unavailable men. I hate to think of how many other families she has helped to destroy.

I'm glad you feel a measure of "closure" from this

I don't like it.

He feels a huge amount of self pity.

He seems to be comparing the pain of infidelity, with his own marriage ending. His marriage isn't ending because of an affair,it's ending because he's lazy,and still feels entitled. Not at all the same kind of pain.

it would seem that like myself at the moment, you too are in pain

He's trying to bond with you over marital pain. As if he played no part in yours.

and give you a chance to address your marriage,

He believes your marriage was bad,and that's why she had an affair with him. He's implying that part of this is your fault,because had the marriage been good,she wouldn't have given him the time of day.

I truly wish there had been a scenario where I could have still met my wife, had my kids and had none of what happened between us

There was. He could have chosen not to have an affair with your wife. He talks as if he is removed from all of this.

The email...just a lot of poor me from this guy.

I do think you should remove the website. His STBXW asked you nicely,explaining she didn't want it to affect her children, who are innocent. They don't deserve the public humiliation that will come from discovering this about their father,knowing their friends,and possibly their parents,may see it.

[This message edited by HellFire at 1:50 PM, Monday, October 31st]

This is very interesting. I hope that you are in fact gaining closure. I also understand how parts of the apology are satisfying, while others are not.

To me, AP's letter and apology is best viewed as a man confronting an unwanted divorce in a 15yr marriage with his divorcing wife recently dating someone new. All of his insights and regrets come from his own recent pain, not years of self reflection. That includes him saying he should have stepped back and let your wife decide if she could work on her marriage.

More than anything, AP seems to be feeling sorry for himself. He lost his wife, and you "won" your wife. There's no thought of your fWW as a person and the pain he caused her. He may romanticize the affair, but it doesn't sounds like it is based on any deep feelings for your wife a person. Only instead, an object of affection also lost that he can recall with nostalgia.

It's been interesting to read the other recent post about the BS giving out pain to the AP. When I think about that, I wouldn't know how to do it without giving out pain to the OBS, AP's children, and just generally causing a chain of more pain in the world. After all the pain all this has caused me, I can't feel great about that. And if punishment and pain is supposed to be a deterrent and make the AP learn, I doubt that. I do hope your website did spark some character growth in this man.

I think there is a carefully developed over time expectation at SI of what a remorseful person should say and think. I am not arguing with that expectation but I do think it is unrealistic to have any one person choose the exact right words that meet the SI standard. Usually, people say things the way it comes to them and some of it will come across wrong. When that happens, sometimes it is said with good intent that fails to come across verbally, other times the poor words do represent a lack of remorse.

Of course it is usually with a WW or WH saying these things that we analyze. This case is very different being the posom. Perhaps the email is sincere, and he is now a former posom. Perhaps he has learned a lesson and does wish he had never acted that way. Or maybe he is just saying this to try to spare his kids from seeing the website. At this point, does it really matter? He is mostly saying the right things, you cant look into his heart and you probably dont want to. You do now know that his life has had it's own pain so your vision of him living large was not accurate. And he has been exposed by your admittedly very clever scheme.

Is that enough?

If so, I would consider not responding at all and putting him behind you once and for all. You steered the karma bus straight to him, successfully. Well done. Probably time to let it go.

[This message edited by Trdd at 3:36 PM, Monday, October 31st]

Feel better? Does that make it all go away? Completely healed and putting it all behind you?

You retaliated against this guy after seventeen years and hopefully, he's sincere enough in his response that he's not plotting ways to get even. Apparently, his life is going to shit around his ears right now and maybe that'll be enough distraction to keep him busy. Or maybe it won't. You've reintroduced yourself and your wife at a traumatic time when brains sometimes make crazy connections and you had absolutely no way to know if you were creating a risk to your family in doing so.

You assumed that he'd react normally and not like a narcissistic loon who views retaliation as a first attack. I'd say ninety nine times out of one hundred, that's a safe bet. But then there's that unlucky one chance of pissing off a nutter. I hope people reading along will bear that in mind and not emulate your example. Even without people who respond with violence, there's still laws regarding stalking and harassment. Frankly, it's a toss up as to whether a civil court judge and jury would care that this guy fucked your wife two decades ago. He's got no history of supporting himself apparently and all he needs is one prospective employer to say they didn't hire him based on that website.

if I could go back in time, I would have waited until she either did or did not divorce, and give you a chance to address your marriage, and regret that I did not give you that courtesy.

Oh how "nice" of him, what an entitled POS. I wouldn't even respond to the apology, at least not to him (maybe his STBXW as a real "courtesy"). It's up to you, I would remove the website, as a way for you to really move on and not keep him in your mind rent free, also not to mention the possibility of a lawsuit against you.

OTOH, I'm curious (as I'm sure others may be too) to know what your FWW thinks about this recent contact by his STBXW, about her former APs situation, his apology letter and whether she wants you to remove the website or not.

[This message edited by Buster123 at 4:52 PM, Monday, October 31st]

After reading ChamomileTea's response, I would like to clarify mine.

I genuinely do hope the website and apology letter are helping you gain closure and heal. That wasn't sarcastic.

My response about personally choosing not to retaliate in some hurtful way with the AP, was not intended in any way to invalidate your choice or shame you. It sounds like your website spoke your truth, as factually as you know it, about the AP. I generally don't agree with not speaking a personal truth due to fear of retaliation. I believe there's a reason victims are givrn an opportunity to confront criminals in court.

I read your bio, and your fWW should be immensely grateful you fought for your marriage and stood by her.

I have no sympathy for this OM, but I think that out of compassion for his soon-to-be-ex-wife, you should take down the website.

First, I'm sure it took a lot for her to reach out to you in the first place and perform the humiliating task of asking you to take it down for the sake of her kids.

Second, the fact that she was the breadwinner in their family probably means that she's getting shafted in their divorce settlement. If he can't find a job because potential employers are put off by your web site, that means his ex won't see any child support from him or might even be on the hook for paying spousal support for this cheating piece of shit. She doesn't deserve that and neither do his kids.

Also, I really take issue with the fact that you describe OM's seduction of your wife as "grooming," as if your wife was a child or an otherwise vulnerable adult who was taken advantage of by someone in a position of power or authority over her, or even superior intellect (when in reality, this guy seems about as sharp as a Qtip).

In fact, your previous posts regarding your wife's behavior and the insights provided in this letter by the OM indicate that your wife was extremely proactive in the pursuit of this affair and may have even been the more dominant personality in their relationship. I base this opinion on how skillful she's been in her ability to manipulate your emotions and perceptions and the fact that OM was clearly despondent that she "chose" you.

It seems as if he is still romanticizing the affair in his mind, as expressed by his comments that he "could not control" his attraction to my wife, which I assert is BS. He never should have allowed himself to become attracted to my wife in the first place,

While I completely agree that this is BS, you should realize that the excuse that you're rejecting from OM is the same excuse that you have completely accepted from your wife. Either OM and your wife are both competent adults who were capable of assessing the potential risk and consequences of their actions, or they are both utterly lacking in agency and were simply slaves to their passions.

What had seemed from the outside to be the picture perfect life for him (something which has continually bothered me) was actually not. He hadn’t held down a job since 2010 and his wife, who was the breadwinner of the family, grew so tired of his leeching and laziness that she filed for divorce this Summer and is now seeing a boyfriend with him having moved out of their 2 million dollar home into an apartment.

This new information should give you an entirely new perspective on why your wife chose to remain married to you instead of running off with him. Have you given this any serious thought?

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 6:05 PM, Monday, October 31st]

Gainingclosure,

Glad that you struck back you just reported the facts and it wasn't you that hurt his family, but the OM. It's no different than had the OM killed someone 17 years ago and was just arrested now.

I don't agree that all OMs are the same.

A serial cheater knows what he is doing and is more culpable than an OM who never had an affair before or after the WW and became attached due to proximity or working long hours together.

A good serial cheater knows how to create a one man local personality cult.

His kids should know who he is no different from reading a history book.

This is a lightweight punishment btw.

How does your W feel about this?

I'm an outlier in that I had an exchange with the OW three years later and it did lighten me. It would have been great if I'd just been completely indifferent to her but I wasn't, and I don't feel any shame for that. I can't control that I had a lot of feelings about someone who tried to end my marriage and become my kids' step-mother. I also had some degree of vicarious compassion for her that she suffered from my husband's representing himself as a lot more available than he really was.

But one thing I'll give her is that her message was very short and to the point. Something like, "I want you to know that it took me a long time to get over my regret and shame, and that I'm very sorry for the hurt that I caused. I know it can't change anything but I hope it provides some closure." I'm not sure how I'd feel about the rather oblivious rambling that the OM does here. But you know what . . . there's no perfect apology, and the presence of some sincerity and introspection would count for me too.

There's no one act that can give us closure. It's a process, and sometimes it feels like two steps forward and one step back. But I hope this feels like a big step for you. It's always good to see the humanity in others.

I'd take the site down, not because he kind of apologized, but because you now know that your primary purpose in hitting back at him because he got away with it free isn't his reality. Yes, he didn't really apologize but the self-centeredness and lack of awareness that just drips off his missive is going to continue to f' his life up. Responding to him won't change that he doesn't really get it and never will. I hope the knowledge that his life isn't as wonderful as you assumed allows you to just leave that toxic anger behind. I do believe that website hurts his family more than it ever will him.

[This message edited by grubs at 3:10 AM, Tuesday, November 1st]

Sounds like a guy who was made to apologize for something he does not regret. He can sue you over the website, not sure if he would win. His best avenue would be to go after who is hosting the site.

He did not groom your wife, she was willing. You need to deal with the demon who you protected. He did not loose, he had someone who loved and supported him until she could not anymore. You have someone who was willing to leave you.

I assume you are now working on destroying your WW's Google reputation?

Asking for all the betrayed wives here who aren't seeing any consequences for the OW.

Co-conspirators, right?

If you say No on destroying your WW's online rep, then you are a hypocrite who is actually ONLY punishing (and blaming) the OM and not his WW, all while pretending her consequences are even remotely equivalent but knowing nothing of the sort. (R is a worse consequence than D? Says who?) To an outsider, doesn't seem like your WW has lost a thing.

The anger I’ve had for him has been very toxic

You said it.

He did not groom your wife, she was willing. You need to deal with the demon who you protected.

Yep.

This is all smoke and mirrors because you can't, don't know how, don't want to put this anger into your M. Because you want to save it.

So you are shitting all over the BW's life, an innocent person who is already losing everything, a woman who wants to protect her children. But you apparently don't care for anyone's point of view or pain other than your own.

How is IC going?

Please say you are going.

To be honest, I sense a lack of respect for women. Your WW has been diminished to some sort of powerless dimwit who had no agency to reject inappropriate advances (poor thing), but she's received a good talking to so that's been handled. And the BW is a woman whose emotional appeal means nothing to you while she navigates an actual D, something YOU seem to find extremely unappealing but have no sympathy for in her case. Do we women even count? Do you see us? Or is it always about besting the competition? Winning the sword fight?

You got your pound of flesh. You got a useless apology from a cheater and manipulator who isn't capable of better. So take the website stuff down and let this BW deal with her life. Go back to your M and deal with the hurt and pain that has not gone anywhere in all these shenanigans, and drop your obsessing about the OM. Are you even ABLE to do this? If not, get help.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 8:48 AM, Tuesday, November 1st]

Here's what I'd tell him, I'll probably get my knuckles rapped for this at SI:

You're a lowlife.

Do everyone a favour and kill yourself.

[This message edited by SnowToArmPits at 9:10 AM, Tuesday, November 1st]

SnowtoArmpits - I am saddened to read those words that you would suggest that someone kill themselves.

To GainingClosure - I’m not going to give my opinion on the website. However when the OBS asked you to remove it for the sake of her children, I am saddened that you did not do so immediately.

This is not a heartfelt apology. It was written for the sole purpose of getting you to take down the website. It should have been him taking responsibility for his actions. At least his part of it for the affair. This is him explaining why he did it, with no responsibility for its aftermath. He is trying to gain sympathy. Especially the part of him being "sympathetic " as he also knows what marital issues are. Barf.

I also think the website should come down, but confess to being intrigued as I could have done the same thing to a AP who deserved more consequences than he had.

Did you FWW know about the site, and how does she feel about it or what you should do now?

I don’t believe in empowering the AP this way.

Don’t get me wrong. If I met the AP begging for water in the desert I wouldn’t even bother spitting in his direction, but I would definitely not be in said desert looking for him. He’s a non-entity – HE doesn’t impact me although what he did with my partner did.

He’s been living rent-free in your mind for all these years, you have placed effort that could have been used positively into a negative path, and you and your wife have a common enemy rather than deal with the infidelity.

17 years later and you're creating AP-flaming web sites and posting here. Clearly not healed.

I do agree with the others that the letter is self-serving BS. I'd suggest you wrinkle it up and flatten it out over and over, to make it soft. Then, wipe your butt with it after pooping, fold it up, and mail it back to him.

The liability to which you have exposed yourself and your family is frankly breathtaking. Get that website down yesterday, and hope and I mean by that pray he doesn't have a moment of lucidity to take significant legal action.

Also, I would recommend erasing your original posting as it reads like an admission of guilt on so many avenues.
.
Note in his letter the following, You appear very successful career wise,. I would be concerned about who has more to lose at the moment.

Seek counseling, for your own good and it may be useful for mitigation as well.