SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hello all,

I have suspected for some time that my wife was having an affair with a man she met at a bar open mic night. My suspicions were raised by things she said while drunk. It started with her talking about how good-looking he was or how great he was at singing. This escalated into her telling me that she was in love with him and finally with her confessing details of their relationship.

I've asked her about all of this while she was sober, and she has said she had no memory and has denied her confessions as crazy drunk talk. This does afford her some plausible deniability. In addition to struggling with alcohol, she has crippling OCD and takes meds for it. The combination of her neurology and using anxiety meds while drinking has produced some pretty wild nights in the past. However, I began to realize something.

Drunk crazy is not structured or consistent. One night to the next may share themes, but not details. How would you ever keep the story straight if you don't remember what you said? Her drunk confessions had the same details. They started when her anxiety was that she might have an STD, which led to her being upset that she found underwear in her purse that didn't belong to her. This led to her being upset with the OM, who accidentally placed them there. This led to her believing that HE was cheating on HER. I've told her all of this while she was sober, and she has denied all of it as referring to anything real.

At last, I needed proof. I don't like creeping around. It makes me feel guilty, even when I am uncovering evidence of someone else's betrayal. I downloaded her text history and read through it. The evidence was there, including her argument with OM about the underwear. She was also upset that he apparently had ED and he was apologizing for not being able to perform, and that he would get pills and do better. This is interesting, because she actually brought up his ED (while she was sober) as a reason why I shouldn't be worried.

The texts confirm they had sex at least once. I should assume it was more than that, though maybe he is unable. There is certainly a lot of emotional intensity. He calls her sexy, and she calls herself his girlfriend. At one point, they talked about breaking up, because she said: "I can't stand in the way of you having a real relationship". Her concern, of course, is with the harm she is causing him by not leaving me, not the guilt over hurting me. Then she goes back and says, "wait for me 2 to 3 years", implying that she will be free when our high schoolers are older. Some of this probably IS crazy drunk talk, but at this point I'm not sure it matters how much she meant literally.

With me, she has been very good at acting like nothing is wrong. She is being emotionally available and quite affectionate. We still sleep together. She often expresses her appreciation for me. Yes, some might be manipulation. And some is likely real. Maybe she doesn't even know exactly which is which. I think she still loves me, but I think she is also afraid that any emotional distance from her will make me more suspicious.

One of the problems I face is that she is totally dependent on me. Her OCD is extremely severe. She lives in constant fear of disease. She can't drive. She is socially avoidant when sober and won't make doctor's appointments for herself or handle school matters. I handle the IEP's for both kids and all of their doctor's appointments. I cook all the meals, and now I'm doing all of the housework because she is either hung over or hanging out at bars or with the OM. Of course, that isn't all OCD. There is definitely selfishness and laziness. But some things are definitely OCD.

We have two kids, each from a prior relationship. There would be little question of custody because each bio kid would go with their respective bio parent. However, I have been the only father figure in my step-daughter's life since she was 3. She has zero relationship with her bio dad. She has often expressed an extraordinary fear of her mother and me breaking up, because she does not feel like her mom would be able to care for her. I feel the same way, and this has made me hesitate.

I would like to confront her, but I need to work on the content and the timing. The first problem is that I want to tell her I know about the affair without revealing how. I have already asked her about her drunk confessions, and she has denied them, but I can bring up my point about how consistent they are. She can still brush this off, so I can insist on her giving me consent to view her texts. She might actually do so because she has deleted them. I don't think she is aware of how easy it is to restore deleted texts. This would allow me to say, thank you for consent; I am going to restore the deleted texts right here and review them.

I suspect this will bring forward the truth, but with an avalanche of caveats. She will dive into all of the things that I have done that have driven her into the arms of OM. I feel the best way is to keep it simple:

We have two options: 1) reconciliation, which means giving up OM, 2) separation.

If she wants to reconcile, that will give us all the time in the world to cover our faults, resentments, and things left unsaid. If she feels she has waited too long for me to change this or that, and does not think I can change whatever is wrong with me, then why bother discussing it more? Either she has given up on me, or she hasn't.

One of the problems I face is that it is very easy for her to derail me. I have often gone into a conversations feeling like I was prepared, only to be blind sided by a way she has of making an objection I hadn't thought of. Having grown up with a narcissistic mother, my WS is simply more nimble than I am at squirming out of facing hard questions head-on. She is just better at arguing. Many times this has made me give up before trying, which has made me pursue workarounds to our problems, which has given her more reason to say there is no point in talking out issues with me because I am the one who is trying to avoid hard discussions.

I would much appreciate advice on how to stay on target and not get flung aside by the "you never do this" or "you always do that". She might be right, but either she thinks I can address her concerns or not.

The other problem is timing. I have contacted both a lawyer and a marriage counselor. I want to be prepared. However, I am dying inside and waiting is really hard. How do I act like nothing is wrong until I am ready? Then when I do confront, how does it not seem like I was laying a trap?

Thanks for reading!

Moonshot,

You already have the proof. You don’t need to prove anything to her.
The right next move is not a carefully staged confrontation. It’s finishing what you already started with the lawyer — get the papers drawn up. Separation or divorce filing, temporary orders if needed, whatever protects you and the kids. Do that first.

Why give her a heads-up? Right now she thinks she’s getting away with it. The moment you put the truth on the table she will start managing the situation: deleting more, rewriting history, playing the victim, using the OCD and the kids as shields, or collapsing in a way that puts the crisis on you. You are already carrying the entire household and both kids. You do not need to hand her the advantage of knowing what’s coming before you’re protected.

Once the legal side is ready, then you can decide how and when to tell her. Some people serve papers and have the conversation at the same time. Some wait until after temporary orders are in place. Either way, you control the timing instead of reacting to her.

The "wait 2–3 years" texts already tell you her real timeline. Act accordingly.

You’ve already contacted a lawyer. Use that. Don’t keep performing normal for her benefit while you die inside. Get the protection in place first.

Thank you, Sharkman. You are correct, of course.

Strangely, I feel helpless despite holding all the cards. WS does not work or have her own bank accounts. If she refused to reconcile because she doesn't want to leave OM or drinking, she would find out that the reality of handling the logistics of life would force her to leave both. I think I have a problem with how much of a jerk it would make me feel, about how I've programmed myself to believe that the reason I have taken on the role that I have is to maintain control. I guess I have to get over that.

It will take some time to draw up papers, and that is the time I fear the need to act normal. She will know something is off and be relentless with asking me what it is, then claim I am closing myself off when I decline to answer. Then of course, that just proves why she needed to seek satisfaction elsewhere - I hide my feelings. I understand the pattern and the manipulation. But like anyone who is manipulated, knowledge hardly gives me the emotional agility to counter a master. But I guess you're saying I should try not to worry. So what if she says that, right?

Thanks!

Friend, it sounds like she is a master manipulator and gaslighter. Some people are just good at that.

I am of opinion timing might not change anything. The reality is that it seems you want to work through this. I am not sure why you don't feel you could have, or deserve, a loyal, faithful, and trustworthy spouse?

Normal relationship issues and an affair are on completely different planes of existence.

You are a rescuer. With all you describe that you do for her, I think it gives you sense of worth and purpose. Don't get me wrong, those are wonderful acts of love and service, but they are being done for someone who does not appreciate it. Can imagine what it would be like to all that for someone who actually notices and cares and appreciates it?

You coming or have that within a secure marriage.

The depth of what she has done is profound. She has a very deep plan with this guy. Discussing leaving you, etc.

You know what, give her what she wants. Let that guy take care of her. Start giving your affection to someone who actually wants you and you alone.

I am so sorry you are going through this. Horrible.

Thank you, WoodThrush2,

It is hard not to feel I have failed twice.

I was previously married for 11 years to someone who cheated on me with multiple people and didn't even hide it. She claimed to be polyamorous and that if I had a problem with her affairs, then I was discriminating against her sexual orientation. You see, I have a history of getting myself into this. My first wife neglected our daughter to pursue her relationships, and that is why I am the sole custodial parent.

I have been married to my current wife for 10 years out of a 12-year relationship. I fear I have an expiration date. When I left my first wife, I could not run away fast enough. I was happy to cut her off, and excited to pursue a new relationship while I still felt young enough. My current wife was that new relationship.

Now I am faced with hurtling into my 50's with two bad marriages behind me. It's terrifying.

Is this the type of marriage you want? Doesn't sound like it. Your wife has zero motivation to change and as long as you continue to enable her cheating nothing will change. Her inability or lack of desire to handle her own affairs acting like an adult) not preclude you from ending the relationship.

She cannot make a doctor's appointment but she can get herself to a bar to get drunk with another man? I think she could handle far more if she was forced to do so.

If your child came to you with this same situation with his/her spouse what advice would you give? Would you tell him / her that he / she should stay because the spouse is totally dependent?

You already have more than enough proof of infidelity so my advice is to lay the cards on the table

Thank you, WB1340

You ask if she can get herself to the bar but can't make a doctor's appointment - it's worse than that. I get her there. If I'm not going with her, I drive her to the bar and pick her up. Otherwise, she will wander the streets and fall asleep somewhere.

Her OCD is medically oriented, and she has deep anxiety about talking to doctors because she is afraid they will tell her she is sick. She can barely take a blood test because the anxiety of waiting on the results is nearly unbearable. Her OCD appears to be drug-resistant, but it is difficult to get her to talk about alternatives. I don't say this as a way to defend, only to provide background.

I believe her inability to function is fundamental to her infidelity. She feels guilty for drinking or being a burden. She chooses the company of someone who is just as messed up and with whom she has no sense of obligation. She has even told me that with her "friend", she feels like she is the adult. I get it. It's still immature, but the logic tracks.

I think she is also experiencing youthful puppy love. She is insecure about aging, and having a guy with a guitar who writes songs about her is exciting the way it would be for a 13-year-old. But she's not 13.

Why do I want to reconcile? Uh... well, my own insecurity. My feeling of being alone. My fear of failure. I know those aren't good enough, but hey, just being honest But of course there is that connection which brought us together, and which is still there to some extent. She is one of the most intelligent and insightful people I know. She has been attentive when I've been sick or feeling down. She spends time thinking of unique and wonderful gifts. We have an incredible physical chemistry. She's hot

I love her desperately and want to grow old with her. I fell into the trap of thinking I needed to compete with OM. I told myself maybe she was right. Sure, I do the hard work. I'm the guy you take home to Mom. I'm just a gen-X latchkey kid and oldest sibling and child of overworked parents who has been running my life without help since I was 15.

So I tell myself - Self, I need to be more romantic, plan more trips, learn to play guitar... yes, I bought a guitar because WS was so smitten with OM's singing. I'm kind of hopeless.

Nonetheless, I would reconcile if she would drop OM entirely and seek counseling. I'd do it in a heartbeat. I'd go back in time and do it yesterday. This intensity is a part of what I've got to process.

You've been given pretty good advice on confrontation already. I have an entirely different reason for posting in your thread because it hits a little close to home for me...

I recently found out I have high functioning autism and went undiagnosed for well over 50 years. I was unknowingly using alcohol to mask my symptoms and help me socialize for decades. When I quit drinking about 9 years ago all of my traits and symptoms came roaring to the surface and I crashed from autistic burnout. I was misdiagnosed with major depression and anxiety disorder and given medication to treat that, which only made things worse. I was a mess for years.

I think your wife is doing what I did and is using alcohol either consciously or subconsciously to mask her symptoms and as a social lubricant. She probably feels "normal" when she drinks and it makes socializing a lot easier. It dampens her nervous system so she's not over stimulated and can relax in social settings. The problem with using alcohol as a masking tool to feel normal is that no one is normal when drunk, and of course the hangovers you mentioned.

I think if there's to be any chance for reconciliation one of your conditions is going to have to be for her to quit drinking, and she's likely going to have a problem with that. I know being in a relationship with someone who's neurodivergent is very challenging. Both my wife and I are, but we're starting a new chapter and understanding my condition has been a real eye opener.

I know you really have your hands full and I'm so sorry you've found yourself here. The bottom line tho is, you can't continue in this relationship with the way things are. You have to set some boundaries and stick to them. If you confront and she starts manipulating I think one of the best things you can say is

"I'm sorry you feel that way. If you weren't having an affair and we were working on our marriage I'd be willing to discuss this with you. But right now the most grievous wound is your infidelity, and until that is addressed I'm assuming the marriage is over. Until and unless you can demonstrate to me there is absolutely no more contact with OM and that our marriage is your top priority I'm going to continue moving forward under that assumption."

Don't let her gaslight you or blame you for pushing her into another man's arms. It doesn't matter what state the marriage was in, or what you did or didn't do there is never, ever a justification for infidelity. There just isn't. No marriage is ever improved or made better by bringing a third person into it. You need to get that drilled into your head and really believe it. Which should be easy to do because it's unequivocally true. She had a hundred different options for addressing any issues that don't involve sleeping with someone else. Infidelity pretty much overshadows any other problems there can be in a marriage. Everything else takes a backseat.

If she won't accept that then I'm afraid you just don't have much to work with. A truly remorseful wayward spouse is willing to do anything and everything it takes to save the marriage. If she won't get there then I fear you'll have little choice but to move forward with a divorce. Don't let fear of failure hold you back. You didn't fail, she did. At your late 40s or early 50s you still have a lot to offer. Besides, I can't imagine things getting much worse than what you're dealing with now.

I think you need to take your agency back and stick to your guns. Don't let her manipulate you. Just hit her with something along the lines of what I suggested and walk away. Don't take any bait from her to argue about other things until the infidelity and her drinking are fixed first. Read up on the 180 in the healing library and start focusing on your well being.

Thank you, Pogre,

You're right (as has been the other great advice). I do need to get it drilled into my head! Your words mirror some of those from my own inner critic, but I am also good at telling my inner critic to shut the hell up. What does that guy know anyway? It is helpful to hear the same things coming from the outside. I need to tell myself I am not just overreacting, that other people can see what I'm seeing. Sometimes I think I'm the crazy one. If I keep that up, I will drive myself crazy anyway.

I like the words you have regarding confrontation. I think I literally need to practice them in the mirror so I don't get sidetracked.

Moonshot,

I’m sorry this is happening to you. How long has this been going on? How are they hooking up if she can’t leave the house without you driving her? Is he coming over to your place?

Why are you still taking her to the bar to hang out with OM alone? Especially if it’s causing her to be unable to contribute anything to the household?

She already knows you know. Sure she’s denying it, but she knows you’re on to her. Anyway, like the Sharkman said, you don’t need to prove you know. This isn’t a court of law. You know the truth and so does she.

I don’t honestly see the value of waiting to confront. Sure you could get the papers in order first, but I wouldn’t wait if that is going to take more than a day or two. Just tell her you know she’s cheating, you’re sick of being lied to that you’ve retained an attorney and are filing for divorce. If your state permits it, file on the grounds of adultery.

If she continues to lie, don’t engage. Tell her that if she wants to save the marriage, she has to prove it. She will have to demonstrate honesty and that she will do whatever it takes to reconcile. If she carries on, just walk away.

If she can’t come clean or won’t end the affair, implement the 180. https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/documents/library/articles/discovery/understanding-the-180/ (don’t miss the FAQs). This is to protect you emotionally and help you detach.

And if it comes to that, stop doing everything for her. But in call cases, stop dropping her off at the fucking bar!

Your own insecurity is really something isn’t it? It’s so frustrating when we invent problems when problems already existing in large numbers. You know what? It is what it is. I hate that saying, but what you’re presented with is:

1. Your wife has unilaterally dissolved the marriage. The vows were broken to each other, the only essential component of a marriage.
2. She made this decision. Your mind cannot wonder how the divorce will hurt or help her. The only job that you’ve been giving is getting out of infidelity. Right now that’s seeing a lawyer and getting papers.
3. Your next actions are prescribed and straight forward - you do not need to ask ‘what if?’. The next steps are the next steps.
4. You do not have bad luck picking spouses. You are not deserving of this or any other abuse. Sometimes bad things just happen and sometimes it takes a bit for you to figure out who is bad.
5. All of these issues keeping you up at night will eventually fade away. The only power they have over you is the power that you give them. Feeling awful? Go out for a walk. Do push ups. Go to the dump and break bottles. Anything.
6. You’ll want to brush up on grey rocking. Someone cut out of the cloth that she’s cut out of will be disastrous when she enters the anger and negotiation phase. ‘Yes’, ‘No’ and ‘I’m sorry that you feel that way’ will be the only words that you use with her for a long, long time