SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Have not posted in a while. We are four months post DDay. This is our first holidays post disclosure. Overall they went well, but had a long discussion today and seems like this was less about progress and more that my wife did not want to think about things over the past couple weeks.

In our last therapy session our therapist said she is seeing more anger from my wife than she has previously. I saw the same and sensed lots of anger again today. I totally understand and have been expecting more anger through the process, but feel pretty inadequate when I try to respond. All I can do at times is just listen and validate.

My wife is still feeling lots of grief and she was crying more today than she has in a while. She wanted to revisit some topics, but I think she is starting to process the physical aspects of the affair more. When we first talked about things she would say that she cannot even think about the physical part yet, but she is starting to talk about it more and ask more questions. I think this might be part of the reason she is feeling more anger now.

I feel pretty helpless as all I can do is answer questions honestly, but watching her go through this is heartbreaking. Any advice on how to respond in this scenario is appreciated.

My suggestion is to not only answer her questions, but validate her being right to have anger. To take it a step further, volunteer how what you did was disregarding her. Volunteer as many injuries you can think of that were occurring when these physical acts were taking place. This validates her and lets her know you are understanding how you hurt her.

Continually ask for forgiveness.
Continually tell her how you hate what you did (assuming you do I hope).
Continually tell her you want to bear the pain with her.

It is a long and difficult road my friend.

No Stop Sign and I am a BS. One who is years out of DDays.

4 months in is not even a drop in the bucket. It takes years to heal from this s*** and it is not for wimps. 3-5 years is the "norm" and in my BS experience it is more on the 5 year side - add time for any trickle truth, contact or things going underground. Throw in the mindf**k that the person who hurt her is the one who is helping her heal.

The roller coaster of emotions is a MFer. And she doesn't know if she needs a hug, a shot of Jack Daniels, a nap, a cookie or a shovel/ducktape/tarp. Most likely she needs all of them at the same time. And what she most desperately wants [and trust me - she is still very much in this stage] is for this not to have happened.

IMHO it is way too soon for any type of MC. You both should be in IC.

What you can do is reassure her. Answer any questions openly and honestly. Be transparentAF. Listen to her rage, hold her [if she wishes] when she sobs. Cut off ALL contact in any way with AP. Give access to any device, password, etc. any time she asks as long as it takes. Read from the Healing Library. Keep your calm [gently - you are the one that shot her full of holes, don't get angry at her for bleeding].

Don't in any way blame her. Don't in any way downplay what you did. Don't lie or minimize or deflect. Don't have any contact with AP [including friends, family, social media, etc.]. Don't hide any detail from her. Don't mourn the loss of your AP or the excitement of the A in any way in front of her (do your grieving in private). Don't blame her for your ultimate decision.

I do not mean this snarky or cruelly, but honestly and speaking straight - buckle up. You are in for a bumpy ride as you navigate your post infidelity relationship. It will not be fast. It will not be easy. It can be worth it.

Keep coming around. Keep posting. And...if you don't welcome BS responses (and that is OK) remember to use the Stop Sign. If you want one added to this post, just ask the Mods and they will be happy to help you.

Continually ask for forgiveness.

I fundamentally disagree with this. Never, ever, despite all of your deepest desires, discuss forgiveness. Forget the word even exists. In fact, get used to the idea that she may never forgive you. The wisest of veterans here will flat out say that reconciliation is possible without forgiveness.

There's no reason at all to validate her anger. She doesn't need your validation. It's condescending and patronizing. She is angry, and rightfully so.

Once upon a time, I knew the definition of rage. To have experienced rage is something entirely different.

The best thing you can do is take the pain, endure her anger, because you've earned it. Apologize a thousand times and then apologize a thousand more.

I will add a caveat, however. There is a limit. You can establish a boundary between hearing and listening to her anger and all out verbal abuse, which is more probable than you might think.

Brother, you are just beginning to understand what you've signed up for. You've experienced the tip of the ice berg and have yet to understand that most of the ice is well below the surface.

If your therapist is surprised by your wife's anger and attempts to validate or dissuade it, she is well out of her depths. As a general rule, I do not think MC is a good idea in the first year or so. I think most veterans here would agree.

I appreciate the responses and did not use the stop sign intentionally. To be clear, we are not in MC, but have done some joint sessions in IC during the full disclosure process.

I get the anger and the therapist was only surprised that she has not shown as much anger previously. In the last couple talks with my wife I think it is related to her processing some of her questions around the physical intimacy. She said it was not something she could even think about for the first couple months.

Totally agree on forgiveness. I have said I often I will never forgive myself for my choices and do not ever expect her to either. I do not think that precludes reconciling.

Also totally get we are in the earliest of innings in this process. I will show up every day ready to do whatever I can, but often feel so helpless. My wife has certain topics that she circles back to and I do not know what to say beyond what I have already said. I totally get needing to talk about the same things and want to be helpful / supportive so wondering what worked for others. That is part of the reason I did not use a stop sign as I appreciate the input of other BSs.

I feel like I have made progress as the early days were me shame spiraling and now my wife will comment that I am much better at just giving her space to express herself, but that often feels inadequate to me. In IC my therapist tells me I should ask her what she is feeling, but that feels to much like therapy to me. Just wish I could offer more.

The circling back is a safety thing and it's to make sure you are giving the truth. She will ask the same question, you answer then she runs your answer like a chess game through her mind to find holes. Then later asks questions differently looking for holes. If your not answering honestly or your doing the trickle truth thing and she figures it out then you get to restart from D day again. This isn't you as a kid getting caught stealing a chocolate bar. There is no lying your way out. Even the smallest of lies, something you leave out because you think will hurt her will cause a reset. And as others have said your light years from this ending anytime soon. But there is light at the end of the tunnel if you are both willing to do the work. But realize things are never going to be the same. But consistency, integrity and the ability to own your actions are your friends here. The things that got you here you need to figure out and show her what you're doing to make sure it never happens again. That's going to take a lot more than 4 months.

Yeah... the same questions being asked over and over again is just par for the course. A big part of that is a BS trying to wrap their minds around what's happened. Keep in mind that it can be overwhelming for a BS to put the story together.

Part of the endless questions is seeking consistency and testing a WS's courage, honesty and authenticity.

As for the details regarding physical intimacy, here's a cautionary warning. While I would certainly not recommend holding anything back or trying to minimize, I think it's perfectly fine to ask as if she really wants to know about these details. I'd imagine you probably can't remember much anyway, and that's also okay to admit to her. She'll struggle with it, but it is what it is.

These questions have more to do with our own insecurities than actually wanting the sordid details. Was the sex better? Was your AP better than her in certain areas? Were you more turned on with AP than with her? Was it more exciting? Did you do things with AP that you haven't done with her? And so on and so forth.

She may not out right ask questions like these, but I believe this is where it comes from. Our egos take a massive hit. She'll instinctively compare herself to the AP, which is really fucked-up. It's her trying to understand why you were so drawn to AP.

I get that you feel helpless and wish you could do more. Just keep focusing on the long term. Reconciliation is a marathon, not a sprint.

Good luck, man.

I am a really mild mannered person. The one who always finds the humor in every situation. I never raise my voice and I give people a lot of leeway. (Well I used to). About 4-6 months after DDAY, my rage hit. And I cannot even describe the rage. I had never experienced that kind of anger - it was deep and visceral and like a different person took over. My WS was absolutely shocked and I was even more shocked.

The good folks here at SI all basically nodded and said "yep, you are at the rage stage. It will run its course but you need to find constructive ways to release that anger." They were, as they usually are, completely correct. You must allow her to vent and release - but do draw the line at abuse. Hopefully she will punch pillows or take up kickboxing or other forms of healthy release. (I did throw a wine glass at one night and that terrified me so much that I reeled the anger back, but it was really hard.)

When I talked to my therapist I told her that I did not know I was capable of that kind of rage or anger. She kind of laughed and said well, no one ever gave you something to be that angry about. She was right.

I agree that forgiveness should not be discussed at this point or for a long long time. First, this is a YEARS long recovery and she will forgive if and when she feels compelled to. The only way to influence that is consistent, long-term change that you demonstrate over and over again. AND she doesn’t have to ever forgive— you can R and have a wonderful life without it. I think of it like a death. You don’t get over it, you move forward with it. If you R, you will move forward with the A as part of your past. Forgiveness not needed.

Listen, empathize without condescension, and get in the trench with her. If she is on the floor crying, get down there with her. If she needs to be alone, give her the space while letting her know you are there for her if she wants you to be.

And the roller coaster is real. She will be up, down, all-around for months. The switches are fast and often unpredictable- triggers can be the stupidest of things. Bananas would send me down a rabbit hole of grief b/c i don’t like them but my XWS loved them and had one every day and I would make sure he always had bananas available at home. The irrational anger I had over this - it’s funny now, but man it was brutal then.

Keep on swimming.

Hi-

At the risk of sounding like a broken record- I think you are doing what you need to be doing.

Think about it this way- grieving has some distinct emotions that are designed to explain as a process. It’s not linear, so they will oscillate but your wife’s anger is right on time and healthy for her in that it’s part of the process.

She has experienced shock, probably bargaining in her quick commitment towards reconciliation. The first few months have been about the stage in the process she is in. Anger is actually a higher vibrational emotion than the earlier stages.

And in many ways I think it’s sort of pivotal one- because until you react by standing up for yourself and feeling stronger in protecting oneself, you can’t really be sure what you are doing is best for you.

It’s unavoidable, natural and necessary. You have approached this all with mindfulness, empathy, love. Just keep doing that. It’s uncomfortable, but sat steadfast in being intentional in supporting her.

You are doing what is needed, and you wil continue to do so. I know if she asked for a divorce tomorrow you would be all about giving her the best divorce she could ask for. This is lotto say that’s where this is headed because I don’t really believe that it is- it’s more an illustration of your heart for her. You are not just covering your ass like a typical ws, you are truly trying to extend yourself in any way possible in the hope it’s even slightly better for her. Thats all you can do. Be strong enough to keep standing in that and wise enough to rest in it when you are overwhelmed. You are doing well.

I wouldn’t do MC yet, I know you are in IC- is she? That may be helpful. Mc to me is better when there is enough individual stability to support relationship progress and sometimes there is no need for it at all depending on the communication skills and individual work that is being done.

Anger is sad’s bodygard and it means she is making progress. I have noted many bs don’t reach that stage until 6 months or more in so in many ways she is hitting some of these things maybe a bit a head of what an average time table might look at.

Encourage her to lean on you and let it out like you have been this entire time.

[This message edited by hikingout at 6:07 PM, Monday, January 5th]

You don't have to be forgiven - wife may never forgive. Something to consider -

Living with being wronged is such a pita - and that is what you have to sort out on yourself.

below is food for thought

and - try to determine what her triggers and avoid as best you can

and - try to figure out what she really needs from you in both actions and words - that is the tough thing required to move forward.

One thing you must have is patience with her - LOTS of patience - as in many years.
Consider your deed(s) have given you both memories and both of you have to reconcile with yourselves on how to deal with them.

What Is Forgiveness?
Psychologists generally define forgiveness as a conscious, deliberate decision to release feelings of resentment or vengeance toward a person or group who has harmed you, regardless of whether they actually deserve your forgiveness.

Just as important as defining what forgiveness is, though, is understanding what forgiveness is not. Experts who study or teach forgiveness make clear that when you forgive, you do not gloss over or deny the seriousness of an offense against you. Forgiveness does not mean forgetting, nor does it mean condoning or excusing offenses. Though forgiveness can help repair a damaged relationship, it doesn’t obligate you to reconcile with the person who harmed you, or release them from legal accountability.

Instead, forgiveness brings the forgiver peace of mind and frees him or her from corrosive anger. While there is some debate over whether true forgiveness requires positive feelings toward the offender, experts agree that it at least involves letting go of deeply held negative feelings. In that way, it empowers you to recognize the pain you suffered without letting that pain define you, enabling you to heal and move on with your life.

While early research focused on forgiveness of others by individuals, new areas of research are starting to examine the benefits of group forgiveness and self-forgiveness.

For More: Read forgiveness expert Fred Luskin’s essay, "What Is Forgiveness?," and Jack Kornfield’s thoughts on what forgiveness means. Learn more about forgiveness research in this summary of key studies and recent white paper, and consider: Is anything unforgiveable?

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