SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

We did have that discussion Torso. I have explained it. Coco was just supporting me, she didn’t make any statements about what you could talk about. Can we please move on now?

Has your CW cheated or not?

I don’t know if he will come back and answer or not, but no she hasn’t. I believe what happened at the time is the fellow writer was being flirty in a follow up email after his wife was attending a seminar and he felt his wife was being naive so he asked her to cut contact and she did.

Personally, I can understand because those rewriting retreats are intense and she is being honored. I can see how she might want to go and fully soak it in. I am not stating she is not cheating but I could also see how this being a unilateral decision she is making without any discussion would feel triggering for him.

I could think of many other scenarios as to why she doesn’t want to have a big discussion on it. And while I agree it’s insensitive, he says their marriage has been great so I don’t think she is likely routinely insensitive or overly selfish because most people married to someone like that wouldn’t describe it that way.

He has not asked her if she is cheating, he has only asked her why he can’t go. I could think of scenarios in which that isn’t connecting for her because from her standpoint she has been faithful. She never agreed with him that she was on a slippery slope with the other writer. We know that’s what people who are having an emotional affair would say but it’s also something someone who wasn’t leaning in that direction would say. Hard to really know.

Edited to add: here is where he mentioned it earlier in the thread, but the other details I wrote about her being naive I simply remember from

Past discussions:

A few years ago (or so) she was emailing with a guy who writes. He gives seminars and she went to one. A few days later he sends a personal email and compliments her- something like she "brightened up the seminar". She replies and gushes over his writing and then he calls her his "little verb" (wife is 5’0, 100 lbs and very fit). That did it for me. I put an end to the emails. She got mad and felt there was nothing to it, but I wasn’t going to let it go any farther.

I have sort of wondered if he is going to be there and she wants to avoid anything awkward. I wondered if that was what BP guy was hinting at -that someone is going to be here he wouldn’t be happy about.

[This message edited by hikingout at 5:51 PM, Thursday, February 12th]

Thanks, HO.

I agree that the unilateral decision is not ok. Since the situation is upsetting, for whatever reason, it should be discussed.

I also agree that those emails were inappropriate. I would recognize that immediately and shut it down. It is concerning that she didn't and instead got angry when BP did. It's also concerning if she's worried about awkwardness from that other writer being there. Why care if it's awkward? If that guy was trying to get something going with her, he should feel awkward. What he did was not OK and he should feel uncomfortable about it.

Torso, I didn't say anything about what anyone could or could not say. Maybe because I know HO, or maybe because I'm so far out from dday, I didn't get the same feeling about HOs post. I wanted to give a different pov based on my experience on this site for many years. Do with it what you will.

If my wife was being honored for something and didn't want me there that would be a red flag. Now, if she was being recognized as employee of the year, at work, during work hours and it was just for employees, that I could understand.

But since she has not provided any sort of explanation and she has a history of what I would consider an EA with another writer I would assume she doesn't want her husband there because she is planning something with another guy

Even if the EA writer is going to be there she should explain this to her husband and let him make the decision as to whether or not he goes and if she goes. This might appear controlling but once you have an affair the rules change

Imagine the fallout if he finds out down the road that the reason she didn't want him there is because the EA writer would be there and her explanation is "I didn't want to make it awkward for you honey". Whether or not this is true I would assume she is lying. You do not get to make that decision for me

[This message edited by WB1340 at 8:58 PM, Thursday, February 12th]

In an adult mature marriage with mutual respect, there would be a logical explanation.

In this case, absent a discussion, you are left to wonder what is really going on.

Once deception creeps in, all bets are off as to whether you get the truth or not.

It’s a shame it has to be this way. The OP certainly deserves better.

I didn’t think bpguy was wrong for shutting it down. The idea she was a bs who married another bs, you would think she understands his anxiety.

I could imagine (and I don’t say any of this is true other than BP guy is a good man part ) that when they got married she felt she understood his sensitivities, and had some of her own.

However she married a very very good man. One that she has come to trust, he has great values, no one hates cheating more, he is engaged with his marriage, and I bet he is a good provider and protector. And he hasn’t grown trust in the same way because she does things like not shut her teacher down, and sees nothing wrong with it. From her standpoint she thinks has been as faithful and loyal as him. Maybe she had hopes that he would have grown to trust her more.

I do understand why she doesn’t want him there IF it’s not for cheating or hiding the fact she is being around someone she is supposed to be no contact with. I have been to these many times. My husband isn’t a creative, and it’s like you are trying to focus but you know he has to be miserable. And so knowing that, it dampens things. And then I usually compensate by giving him more time but then I feel like I missed part of what I wanted to do here. Being honored means that this is center stage time for networking. I could see how for some people that part would be very draining, and I don’t want to come back to the room and then not be able to decompress because I would feel guilty after leaving him alone all day and then not being engaging with him.

However, why not say that? So in other words, my two scenarios of these more innocent issues does not play. Unless she just doesn’t want to be talked out of her decisions.

My bet is on the NC guy is going to be there. I am not saying she is hiding it because she wants to cheat with him, though that could be a reason. It’s because she wants to go and not have BPguy see him and get upset. Which no matter which it is is a form of betrayal.

My biggest advice is to work this out before she goes because if not that’s going to be the longest most miserable weeks. If it were me, I would tell her that, and that without her explaining all this in a way I could understand, that she is setting me up for a traumatizing week because it feels like she is hiding something. Then I would listen very closely to what she has to say about that.

[This message edited by hikingout at 10:37 PM, Thursday, February 12th]

I would not be supportive of my fWH going away for a week without me if he told me he didn’t want me there.

That would trigger a response in my brain screaming "WHY NOT!?!?!?!"

And if he resisted my attending with him, I would likely shut down and then do a 180. He would get no further input from me.

While he was gone, I would refuse calls and communications. When he came back I would be gone.

Because if he doesn’t want me with him, then I won’t be with him.

I don't want to take the post further off topic and make it to be unhelpful to the original poster.

hikingout,

I certainly don't have a problem with you personally. I do often find your posts interesting and thought provoking. I left the conversation for a while because I only have the mental energy to deal with each topic in a limited fashion and need to think on my own about all of it.

I was curious about your response and whether you thought thatbpguy was genuinely reacting in an inappropriate manner to the situation. It seems you do, no? If we could just stick to what you think about his situation and the post, I think that would be best.

end.

I haven't fully gone through all the responses and processed everything. My initial reaction is that bpguy did say his wife had an EA. That's what HE thought of it, not flirty texts. When he talked to her about that, she didn't appreciate how seriously he felt about it according to his post.

Maybe bpguy is reacting too strongly about how his wife is behaving now. I certainly don't know his full history. Maybe I have been through a similar situation with my infidelity and feel a strong response is best. Others were expressing a similar thought. I would likely react strongly to the situation, particularly if I found that my husband was lying to me about what's going on with the trip. If he can't be honest now, for whatever reason, I'm going to react strongly. But this is bpguy's wife and not my husband. I can only speak for me. Maybe that is unhealthy. I really need to think about it more and come back later.

Thanks kitchendepth. I was only trying to understand your perspective. And now I do.that makes me feel tons better because I kept feeling like I was offending repeatedly you somehow. Now that I know where you are coming from, that is very helpful to me. Written sentiment a can be easily misconstrued - I will read you from now on as curious. My sincere apologies. I probably have a bit of a complex that contributed to all of it.

As for this:

My initial reaction is that bpguy did say his wife had an EA. That's what HE thought of it, not flirty texts.

I think that’s just a difference in our understanding because he didn’t elaborate. This isn’t the first time I have heard this story and have dissected this with him in the past. He doesn’t feel she had an EA, he thinks he stopped it before it was an EA. However, due to his past experiences it bothered him that she was being naive about the guys intentions. I don’t think she flirted back, but was enthusiastic about his work which was feeding his ego and fueling his pursuit of her.

If BP thought her intention was to have an affair I think that would have been it for him. I think at worst he thought she should have shut him down, and at best felt she was being naive.

She took a class from the guy. He sent her an email after. She was talking about his work and he was spewing more personal compliments: you lit up the class, calling her a little verb. She wasn’t reciprocating in the same way but she should have asked him to keep his tone more professional. He likely emailed her because he was interested in her.

BP intersected it before it could become an affair because this is how affairs start, and I do agree with that. But it doesn’t mean she had formed an intention or ever would have, he just wasn’t taking chances and who could blame him?

I also think his flowery way of communicating could have been interpreted by her as his flair for the dramatic. I know people like that and if they sent an email it would sound over the top but it’s just their common vernacular. So her perspective could have been more about the context of how he interacted with people. But I am not saying that if I read someone talking to my husband that way I wouldn’t shut it down.

I think if he came back he would tell us he doesn’t consider her to have been a ws, or having cheated, but he did feel he interjected before it had become an EA. He said something to me once about that’s how men think, and the fact she wasn’t seeing it scared him.

I am not sure that has to be an indication on whether she is cheating now but I think as protective as he is - he says he keeps an eye on her- it’s hard for me to believe if she is cheating she is doing it so blatantly. If she is she knows for 100 percent the outcome and it would be an exit affair.

Right now I think he has only asked her about coming and has tried to get her rationale. The fact she sidesteps it makes him feel she is hiding something, and she very well may be doing that. He isn’t the type that would say an accusation without more information. He may need to be more confrontational than that. Or I could be wrong and hopefully he will show up and say.

if I found that my husband was lying to me about what's going on with the trip. If he can't be honest now, for whatever reason, I'm going to react strongly. But this is bpguy's wife and not my husband. I can only speak for me. Maybe that is unhealthy. I really need to think about it more and come back later.

I agree and same. My remarks were maybe unclear on that because some of my response was to counter some of the responses he was getting that made it sound like she is a ws who is cheating a second time and I was trying to temper that as a way of calming him (though not to dismiss it or cease investigating).

[This message edited by hikingout at 3:07 PM, Friday, February 13th]

I had a somewhat similar situation with my H about a year ago. I learned that he was regularly partnered with a woman at his gym. It was for a legitimate reason and not his choosing. They both like to compete. My H is very good at motivating and encouraging people to push themselves during workouts. This woman needed the push so their coach partnered her with my H.

I didn't know anything about it until the woman contacted me to ask what my H would want for his birthday. She was planning a big thing for him at the gym. I told my H it was too much and I needed him to stop partnering with her. He did as I asked.

No one at the gym understood why. Her H appealed to my H to keep working with his W. My guess is that they figured I was jealous and him asking would indicate that there was no funny business. Altho, neither her H or I would really know. Neither of us was a member at the gym.

That wasn't the issue for me. As far as I know, nothing inappropriate was going on. The people at the gym regularly do things for members on their birtdays and such. There were other people involved in the planning for my H. I wouldn't have had a problem with it if he was occasionally partnered with her or any other woman. It was the regularity of it and the dependence this woman had on my H that was my concern.

My H is clueless. It didn't register to him that it was a slippery slope. He said to me that he thought we were in a good enough place that it wouldn't matter. I told him we would never be that good again.

I still go on their group hikes sometimes. I still pop into the gym occasionally for a competition or special occasion. I don't care what anyone there thinks. They aren't my people. If anyone were to ask, I would be honest.

Some people are just clueless. My H is a fWH. He should've known better. BPguy's CW should know better, being a BP herself. Sometimes, they just don't.

All that being said, if my H ever told me he didn't want me coming to his gym anymore, or communicating with any of the members, we would have a serious problem. He never has. Quite the opposite. He's always trying to get me to go and do things with them. It's annoying. I don't play well with others.

I did pop in last weekend while he was judging a comp. He didn't know I was coming. I didn't know I was going until I was trying to figure out hwne it would be over and discovered they had vendors. I went for the shopping. When my H saw me, he got a huge grin on his face.