SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

It's really sad. For everyone involved. I don't know about your wh, but mine is a sex addict. I imagine the other poor lost souls on CL are too. How empty must you be to go looking for such encounters?

Sometimes I feel sorry for him, and sometimes I hate him. Sometimes I love him, sometimes I wish I had never met him.

Hey, everyone

I just wanted to come and send hugs to you in this day in case you are needing a hug.

((((Everyone))))

I hope this journey gets easier for us and that Deeply Scared's legacy continues through our wisdom and suport for each other.

Today I heard that she (the founder of SI) passed away and have been feeling very sad but grateful at the same time because this site has made my journey through hell a little more adventurous and corageous.

Not sure if I were still alive without all the help.

This is the thread about her Passing:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=583167

I will be forever grateful for DS and MH and let's hope we can make a difference in the world like she corageously did.

[This message edited by Lovingmyselfmore at 10:24 PM, December 26th (Monday)]

Lifexploded, thank you for relating your situation. I really appreciate knowing other people have gone through exactly what I'm going through. Not that it's a good thing other people have to go through this...it's just comforting I guess. How is your relationship now?

Also...his actions aren't impressive. But I guess he is acting. He's waiting till the last minute of the deadlines I gave to actually act. Which is extremely disconcerting.

Also, in your last post...

.Sometimes I feel sorry for him, and sometimes I hate him. Sometimes I love him, sometimes I wish I had never met him.

This is just spot on. It drives me crazy how my opinion of him flip flops sooo often. Thank you for your input

[This message edited by Trippd at 10:21 PM, December 29th (Thursday)]

Our relationship is ok. I think I'm one of the lucky ones. My SAWH always does whatever I ask, agrees to my requirements, reads the books I give him, takes polygraphs etc.

It's still hard. I get frustrated when he falls back into old emotional or bad communicating habits. But I can see a future. Maybe.

Honestly, being caught is the best thing that could have ever happened to him. He is finally getting the help he has needed for so long. It just really sucks that I'm the innocent bystander in it.

Ok...I think I'm posting here because it get less attention. Though that doesn't make sense to me...

WS has done nothing since Dday. As far as I know? And we've talked a lot about why, but he just doesn't know. Ugh. I can't stand that he doesn't know why he would do this. I strongly think there are FOO issues but since he doesn't remember anything from first 12 years of his life...also hard to say but also a strong indicator that I'm right.

He's done what I've asked him to do now. Timeline, get IC, get tested, etc. but now that those little tasks are done, I don't know what next? He's admitted he must be bi. He's surely not full on gay. I don't know where to go from here. He's actually tryingnow I think and I feel like I wish he wouldn't. I don't know where to go from here? What's next after those little tasks that everyone recommends he start with?

First of all- I'm not even close to knowing what the answers are for anyone- I'm just in a similar boat as people posting here.

Those are good first steps. It has taken 9 months for my husband to make moderate steps in understanding the basics of what happened to him- I'm not sure if he will ever know exactly why. This behavior is so pervasive and ingrained that years of therapy and a lifetime of introspection is needed- even then only they know if they are being truthful.

You have zero power over what happens with him. Zero. You can only control what happens to you. That's why you need to set boundaries and work with people who have been through it and a therapist.

You have the power to walk away at anytime. Period. If he isn't making progress the way you hoped, if he slips, if he's actually gay, he snores... ANYTIME.

This is tough stuff. You are doing great.

Some things that I consider when I think of my FWH doing the work.

Continue to answer all questions without resistance, anticipate triggers that you may have, also therapy is a HUGE step and in my R it's a requirement. (My FWH goes once a week).

My FWH is understanding in many things, I am upfront about not having empathy if he's sick or hurt, he gets sad about it but he understands that HE made me lose those feelings.

He changes the TV if sex scenes come on, and he looks at the ground if he sees any type of person that he knows would trigger me, women in short shorts, tiny skinny women, etc. I've even seen him look away out of the corner of my eye when he doesn't think I'm looking.

Continued full transparency.

He reads articles or links I send him, he deals with my verbal attacks when I'm in panic mode, etc.

Basically you have to set your boundaries and see if he continues to respect them after the first steps are taken.

[This message edited by HowIsThisReal at 11:02 PM, January 8th (Sunday)]

So it's been a little bit since I've been here. I initially posted on the JFO section and got directed here after the whole "he must be gay blahblahblah".

And I guess reading a lot of your stories as I was catching up with the thread kind of triggered some more questions in me. So I asked my him "are you sure you told me everything?"... And we had DDay 3: what he told me was same guy four times ended up being three guys five times. I'm so mad at him. He kept saying that he didn't see what the difference was and these were just details and after telling me the initial story and seeing how hurt I was he didn't think that mattered. He has been TT me for the past 5 months!!!!! FUCK THAT! You don't get to decide what matters anymore!!!!

In a weird way it is true that is doesn't change too much because it happened when he was cheating on me anyways right so I'm not devastated but I'm just so mad that it always comes out when I asked and then he wonders why it's hard to rebuild trust! Or why I still don't want to have sex with him.

He had a good childhood, loving parents although really conservative that kind of got panicky when they learned that he had played doctor with another boy. Which BTW seriously??? he was 7!! kids play doctor with everybody but since it was a boy he got "the talk" by his parents and that probably shut his bisexuality down until SURPRISE we get engaged and stupid me is collateral damage of this mess.

What has been bothering me though is we got into IC and MC literally the next day of Dday#1 and now he's so focused on changing the things that are dysfunctional in our relationship that he feels forgetting that we have to fix that he has to fix what he just fucking smashed to the ground. It's like a perfect distraction!

((Trippd)) I feel you sooo so so much, I'm also young (not as young) 27 and NO KIDS, and battle between wanting to fix it and feeling like I got an easy way out. People (no one IRL knows) telling me that even though they went R through infidelity if they didn't have kids they wouldn't have stayed, which makes me feel like shit.

Nobody can make decisions for YOU. If you want to stay married after a same gender AP- then be married. If you don't know what you want to do- then be in limbo. You can decide to leave anytime--- now or in years.

People say all kinds of stupid shit when they don't know all the facts. Staying for the kids is a reason, but how can they know what they would do without children? They don't- it's just a way to justify not leaving.

If your spouse is doing the work, or if you're not ready to leave yet- that is ok. I would suggest not intertwining your lives anymore until you are both healthy. (No children- joint financial adventures)... That will complicate things later if this is a deal breaker.

Get yourself healthy, that way if you leave you can thrive on your own- it takes a lot of time. We are here with you in the same place...

This is crazy stuff.

Hurtandstuck, I'm really sorry to hear about your TT. It sucks. My WS gave me TT for the first week or so which makes me still very unsure of whether it is everything.

And the fact that you don't have kids, you should be relieved. Because now you can be confident that any decision you are making is being made with only you and your concerns in mind. Whether you stay or go you are doing it for you. Honestly I would leave. Because I recognize the fact that if it weren't for my son I would have been gone as soon as the whole truth came out. Maybe even sooner. But I need to be his support system and i need to make sure he stays happy and healthy and in that comes the responsibility of making sure he has s comfortable place to stay and that he continues to see his father.

Seriously consider why it is that you're staying. Because you need to make sure you're making a good decision that is only for you and that you're not being codependent on him. Maybe he's gay maybe he's not and he's just bi. I guess that's what we're all going through on this thread. But there's obviously something and he had no problem lying to you and going behind your back. Go to the general forum and look at all the advice on there. If he's not willing to do the Hard Work of rebuilding everything while you sit back and watch (cuz that's what you should do when it comes to the relationship) then it's not worth saving.

Focus on yourself. Take some time and seriously reconsider what it is that you want in life, from him, and just in general. This is only about you and your needs. Never forget that and if you ever feel you can't take it and it might be better for you if you left. Do it without hesitation. Don't consider his feelings in this because he obviously didn't consider yours when he went off and cheated and lied to you.

[This message edited by Trippd at 11:20 AM, January 12th (Thursday)]

Hurtandstruck, your decision is your decision. You know yourself and your partner better other people. Anyone making you feel like shit for making a decision that you are to make just isn't worth feeling like crap over.

I was in similar shoes to you once. I wanted to stay with my ex but these (no longer) friends made feel dumb...kind of like a dumb child. They thought they knew best and that I was incapable of making decisions.

I was reminded that it's my life. No one can make your decisions for you. The best one person can do for you is to support you in whatever decision you make.

I'm sorry people are making you feel that way H&S.

I was actually just coming to SI to vent about what other people say sometimes. I just happened to check in here first so I'll start in here.

Not many people IRL know about us either, a few online friends know about the cheating but not the same gender stuff.

So when I give them an update, I HATE it when they say "you are so brave/strong, I don't know if I could do it".

It just sounds condescending to me, like they're saying "yeah your integrity and self worth are shit, and you're a weak person, so of you can overcome this and stay with him...but MY integrity and self worth are top notch, and I'm NOT a weak person, so I don't know if *I* could do it)".

I'm probably overthinking it I'm sure. Some of my online friends do genuinely seem supportive of me and my M, but like I said, none of them know about the M4M stuff.

That being said, most people agree that staying JUST for the kids is a bad idea. Many of us who have kids might originally stay for the kids, but then figure out down the line that it won't work out too well. You have to genuinely want to say at least a little bit, I think. There has to be some tiny little ledge of hope/love to stand on, but that's just my humble opinion.

----------------

On a different note, I had my 1st therapy appointment since moving to a new state and it went pretty well. I told the story, my therapist said that she's counseled men who had been in this situation and most of them did it because M4M offers an unemotional release. There's more of a chance of feelings becoming involved when women are involved, men offer more of a "get off and get out" type of scenario, she said M4M doesn't always = gay/bi.

Based on what I told her, she doesn't seem to think my FWH is gay/bi, so that's 3 therapists now who have the same outlook. It's reassuring I guess, but it's still so shocking, even now over a year later. She says he was likely chasing the sexual high like an addict, but he may not BE an actual SA, since his behavior after d-day doesn't "check the boxes". Which is what FWH's previous and current therapist said as well.

She said it's really positive that he's stuck to the boundaries, and that he's in therapy, since many WS refuse therapy.

She also said it's good he's been consistent over the past year, it all shows signs of true growth and progress on his part, she said it SOUNDS like he really loves me and wants to save the M.

I signed a release, so that my therapist and my FWH's therapist can share info (same practice, different therapists), so I guess we will see what she thinks after conferring with FWH's therapist.

[This message edited by HowIsThisReal at 12:22 PM, January 13th (Friday)]

Thanks all I appreciate it. It though because that's kind of giving off the impression that one situation is "worse" than the other:

People who got cheated on with opposite gender AP tell people who got cheated on with same sex AP to leave

People who got cheated on/discovered later in their marriage tell young people to leave

People who have kids are saying to leave

As if just wanting to stay with that person isn't a good enough reason...

It's really quite depressing and mind boggling, we all know BEFORE an affair we all said "If I EVER get cheated on, I'm out the door" but look how many try to reconcile! It's so easy to tell "wow she got it so much worse, if that were me *I* would leave" although we're all going through the same thing!

HowIsThisReal: good! that must be a some type of a relief!

[This message edited by Hurtandstuck at 9:06 AM, January 16th (Monday)]

By the way, how do you tell the story to others?

How do you keep the M4M stuff out without turning your WS into a "simple" cheater? We're struggling with the story we want to tell people because he become either a jerk who cheated or the closeted guy who cheated on his future wife with a dude? There a part of the real struggle that deserves empathy that he won't get if we don't disclose the M4M. I might become the stupid idiot who not only STAYED but is DEFENDING him then (sorry not really funny but it's such a bad choice it's almost laughable...)

I just say he cheated with random CL people, everyone assumes it's only been with women.

M4M or not, he WAS some asshole who cheated so he has to own up to that. I won't defend his infidelity, but I will explain how hard he's been working on changing himself. Then there are the people who will say "a leopard doesn't change his spots" and that's when you have to try to let it roll off your shoulders.

Hopefully anyone can change with enough work and introspection. (Obviously I don't mean sexual identity, just change from being a cheater to an honest person).

But that's why I don't tell everyone because there will lways be those who think anyone who stays with a cheater is weak...until it happens to them. And there are TONS of people even here on SI that think M4M instantly = gay.

I was guilty of it myself before all of this, it was only after I started researching after D-Day, that I learned that M4M can also come from FOO issues or deviant addict behavior, not just "because they must be gay".

And yes, people will always say "if _______ happened I wouldn't have stayed" but we ALL thought we wouldn't have stayed if there was ANY cheating, so it's almost hypocritical to me for a BS in R to say such a thing.

[This message edited by HowIsThisReal at 9:41 PM, January 13th (Friday)]

I know a family member whose wh left for another man. Eventually, he and the other man broke up, my family member took him back- they never remarried, but he moved back home (came to family functions)... The family was so mean to her- and she is so nice... Even her mom and dad ridiculed her.

They did this for a few years, he has since moved out- we just assumed he decided he wasn't heterosexual.

This is my only experience with exposure and same sex AP... I feel so bad for my family member, and now I'm in a similar (yet very different) situation. I will never tell what happened. It would forever shame my children and they didn't do anything to have a confused sex addict dad. I hope for their sakes he keeps his shit together.

Love and hugs- this is so difficult. You are all in my thoughts and prayers everyday.

I have my 2nd IC appointment in a few hours.

FWH and I had a bad night last night. I've been in a funk since my last IC appointment and it all came to a head last night.

More talking, more asking him for details.

I asked him to describe his first male encounter from start to finish (a BJ at our old house, the ONLY time he ever "hosted", he felt dirty doing things, with our children's stuff laying around so he never "hosted" again).

Then I asked him to describe a specific female encounter from start to finish. Both were equally disgusting and heart breaking.

He complied in telling me, as he usually does.

I keep asking for these details and then I'm left wondering who the fuck he became during this time.

I asked him if he ever left an encounter with a man, feeling emasculated, he said no, because it was just emotionless sex. He said you closed your eyes and it could have been anyone.

So then I asked him if he ever left an encounter with a man and thought to himself "I was just somebody's bitch".

I literally said that to him, the look on his face...he got so upset and angry, but he held it in and answered calmly, saying no he never thought that.

I also spiraled the other day, to the point where I was looking on CL for posts that sounded like him, in an attempt to "catfish" him. It was unsuccessful, thankfully, the post that sounded like him, wasn't him. (Yeah, I sound crazy in admitting that).

I did tell him about it so that I wasn't hiding anything regarding me looking at CL ads, it certainly wasn't for my own pleasure.

I don't feel in my gut that he's cheating again, or that he ever will again, but I get triggered when I read posts on here about false R after years of thinking things were fine.

False R posts make me question my gut instinct and makes me fall into a hopelessness, wondering if R is ever truly possible for anyone, or if it's all false R for everyone, with the other shoe about to drop at any moment.

[This message edited by HowIsThisReal at 8:43 AM, January 18th (Wednesday)]

How did it go, HowIsThisReal?

We talked about A LOT.

We went over the timeline of our relationship, if/how I thought the marriage changed after each child, whether each child was planned or not, etc.

She had already met with FWH's therapist as well and gave me some more insight to a lot of this being due to his upbringing and childhood.

He didn't have the right coping skills to resolve conflict with me, he was lonely when this cheating started (he's never used it as an excuse and the therapist said it's not an excuse either) but instead of coping with loneliness in a healthy way, reaching out to me, or anyone, when something (CL) presented itself he did that instead.

Up until recently I never even knew he was lonely back then, he never expressed it, never tried to let me know how he was feeling. She said that is on him, and his poor communication skills.

He didn't have the right boundaries and values because those boundaries and values weren't modeled in his life while growing up. He didn't know how to be in a healthy marriage. His mom has been in 3 marriages and the only one based on actual love was with his dad. I don't really know the story of how she met her second husband, but the husband she has now, she found through her job as a "head hunter" matching resumes up with potential jobs. She fell for his yearly salary on paper before she even met him, so once she made contact tact with him under the pretense of job matching, she already had a plan to try to "woo" him into marriage, for his money.

MY main issue to work on right now is anger. I'm full of anger that seeps out in different ways, which she said is normal. She asked if I thought he was "forgivable". I told her struggle with the meaning of forgiveness. I think I can accept it and move through it eventually but I likely won't ever "forgive" him.

She still feels, after conferring with his IC that he's not gay, that he was looking for the least emotional way to get off and he took what ever was available. It still disgusts me that he could turn his mind off that much to have an orgasm with someone else, still disgusts me that he was able to orgasm that first time with a guy's mouth on him. I don't understand how one even turns that thinking part of their brain off. How did he relax enough to get into it? How did he not feel vulnerable letting his guard down like that?

Anyway, IC said I have a lot of work to do, especially letting the anger go, she said eventually it'll affect ME, even if we were to D, I could become bitter from holding onto the anger. I just get stuck in the past and in the details SO much.

FWH has even more work to do. He's been in IC than I have at this point though.