SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi All,

I have been feeling better, I read a book that really kind of helped me see things from a new perspective. It talked about my world view and sabotage.

My three basic truths are I am a loser, people are stupid and life sucks.

There was a big process to get to that point but bear with me.

I feel like I am a loser so I attract losers or see my self in them and want to fix them, but really I want them to fix me.

People are stupid, I know that is a gross over exaggeration , but I tend to end up at that point, I called my exe stupid a couple of times, granted she did some really stupid things but she blamed her ADHD.

Life sucks, well in my case it does but that is all relative.

The book went on to talk about how we view things.

I view getting cheated on as a wound to the heart.

She viewed cheating on me as a way out. Maybe I don't know but she wasn't in a position were she could leave without finding a sugar daddy.

It made me think about a lot of things. It went on to talk about the past and how there isn't anything we can do about it. We can only effect the present and change our future.

Kind of like affirmations but I viewed it as I need to focus on my future instead of dwelling on the past.

I read it on Wednesday, yesterday and today have been good most of the day. I have been on match and have been talking to a few women which helps my ego and pride. Met one for coffee, it was a dud but I am talking to a new one which might be something.

Sometimes I think of how she replaced me so quickly and moved on without skipping a beat, but really I don't know how long she was talking to the married millionaire before so it might have been months or even a year.

I have thoughts of walking in on her reading "Letting Go", she said it was about getting over her mother's death 20 some odd years ago, but maybe it was her getting over me. I also caught her reading crucial conversations and asked her about it and she said she was having trouble with a client. She never did have a conversation with me to let me know she was at the point of cheating.

I missed the signs I guess and when I struggle it's from the fact that I ended up meaning so very little to her. She cheated and left without batting an eye. That is what hurts the most I suppose and the thing that I can't really process fully.

I know we both had checked out of the relationship, I thought it was a down spot and that we would recover, she thought it was a down spot and found a new dick.

I have been NC for 52 days and am 62 days out from Dday. I know in the grand scheme of things that isn't very long but I honestly don't want to pine away for years over this shit.

I still fantasize about her reaching out to me and what I would say. The same cold distance responses she gave me. "Nope I am good" and ending it there.

I know it's not healthy to fantasize about it and really have tried to put it all past me but I struggle sometimes.

95% of me thinks I will never hear from her again, the 5% is unsure, all my exe's have reached out to me since I started dating. I don't know if it is my way of trying to hold onto hope that she will realize she made a mistake, to soothe my ego or if it is something else.

I started seeing an IC last week, we will see how it goes. I know getting laid will help rebuild a lot of what I am struggling with, but I really know it's the best thing that could have happened, not the cheating but her leaving.

I was so unhappy with the life we had together and was so alone most all the time, we didn't spend time together, we didn't really do anything together except sex every other day.

I don't know what I am looking for in this post, not platitudes certainly but just if any of you have had/felt/been experiences like this?

Count me in on the one day/next day confusion. I am 8 months out right now.

I've been down this path before but this is the first time a big part of me believes nothing is ever going to change. Her promises ring completely empty to me.

Yet, most days are pretty good overall, but I haven't had a day where I haven't remembered that my wife betrayed me, that she is a liar, and that the real her is very likely that evil and vile person.

Speaking of projects, I am going to be replacing the air compressor for air shocks on our vehicle this weekend. I am not very mechanically inclined so wish me luck. It looks easy enough but mostly I am a tightwad and don't want to pay 2k to have it done.

Mr. K. - I am relieved for you as well! Truly, I am.

What's next on the agenda? Finding a new dog

Potentially the new Menz mascot? I will be looking for updates. That is an awesome agenda.

I don’t care if you miss the mark I just didn’t come to SI for your wife’s a ho f her file,

Same here, Brew. That's one of the reasons I came to this site. I tried to reconcile for several years, and got some great support here. To be honest, my STBX and I pretty much healed from infidelity (as much as people can). There were other factors that made us incompatible.

I used to be a brewer as well. Had three kegs in my garage beer fridge. Was into hops before hops were cool. Eh, either way, I had fun with it. Organic gardening sounds awesome. I've been gardening since I was a tiny tot as well. Both of my parents grew up as farmers, so it's kind of ingrained in me. Unfortunately I get a lot of hail where I live, so I am going to have to find a way to mitigate that now that I am in a position to garden again. There is a dude here named Tred who is a much better gardener than me. Maybe he will be along at some point. Either way, cheers!

Good to see you, Tanner!

I don’t care if you miss the mark I just didn’t come to SI for your wife’s a ho f her file,

This right here caused me to take so many breaks from the site. I've had to remind myself constantly that everything is very very simplified here and that relationships are so much more complex. I also very much have a white knight mentality, where it's ok for me to think my wife is garbage but I don't like other people saying it.

Even now when I post that she has been doing really good things I will get people who can't see past their own pain and basically imply what you are saying here. I have learned to weed through it, because unfortunately many people were right about my situation.

** Posting as a member **

Brew3x,

I was in shock for about 3 months. Then, as I really started taking in my new reality, I felt worse for about 3 months. That may be what's happening with you.

I committed to R when I was 3 months out. Maybe that was part of my new reality that took another 3 months to sink in. Anyway, I started feeling better about life, very slowly, about 6 months out.

With a little luck, you'll start feeling better soon.

*****

sorryforeverythi,

Eric Berne founded a school of thought called 'Transactional Analysis' (TA for short) that talks about 4 life positions: I'm OK, you're OK; I'm OK. you're not; I'm Not OK, you are; I'm not OK, and neither are you.

I recommend checking into Berne and TA on the web. The Harrises wrote a best-seller called I'm OK You're OK that's still in print and may be available at your library, and I also recommend looking at it.

It's all too easy to get into 'I'm not OK' after being betrayed. In fact, I would bet that the BSes who don't are very few and far between.

*****

I just didn’t come to SI for your wife’s a ho f her file,

Me, too. I actually found a different forum first, and it had been taken over by a few powerful voices that spouted that same message. Fortunately, one of them dissed SI, and I figured SI might be pretty good because one of those guys dissed it.

What's worse, though, are the guys who tell fellow BHes to 'grow a pair' and/or who know exactly what their fellow BHes's Ws did and will do on the basis of someone's first post, especially when they haven't shared anything much about themselves.

Those type of voices on SI tend to stay within guidelines, though, so fairness says they get to post their opinions.

I get pretty annoyed, however, at people who pretend they know things they don't and who have a one size fits all ideology.

Note: There are lots of members who post things that parse out to:

'Your W says ____. That's pretty common. Usually there's a lot more.'

'IMO, this solution is best, but you have to make your own decision.'

'If your WS's lips are moving or not, s/he's probably lying.'

Those sorts of statements I can accept because they acknowledge there may be more to the sitch than the writer knows....

[This message edited by sisoon at 3:31 PM, February 21st (Friday)]

Sisoon

I totally agree. I see so many similarities with WS’s a lot of behavior is very predictable. So a general here is what you can expect is helpful. But, telling someone exactly what to do D or S without many details can be harmful.

It went on to talk about the past and how there isn't anything we can do about it. We can only effect the present and change our future.

True. The past can keep us from moving forward. However, ignoring the past is like a guy who mows the weeds off his lawn and then wonders why they grew back a couple of weeks later.

I had to figure out what caused me to become an alcoholic/drug addict during my younger years. Once I found out the root of those addictions I was able to move forward and have never had a problem in that area again.

Yet, most days are pretty good overall, but I haven't had a day where I haven't remembered that my wife betrayed me, that she is a liar, and that the real her is very likely that evil and vile person.

I'm an outlier here since I stayed married to a wayward almost 27 years after D-day 1. This isn't someone who worked on herself or our marriage either, until a few months ago when she joined this site. There hasn't been a day that it hasn't crossed my mind that she cheated on me. But the importance of that as part of my life has for the most part faded. It's merely an inescapable fact.

Potentially the new Menz mascot? I will be looking for updates. That is an awesome agenda.

I signed up on a site that sends me by email potential dogs to adopt based on what I'm looking for. Got a new one this morning. Yesterday I called a number that had a 3-year old Beagle named Max. But the lady said the dog is no longer available. Sigh...

To be honest, my STBX and I pretty much healed from infidelity (as much as people can).

There it is. "As much as people can." Infidelity changes a couple for better or for worse depending on what both the husband and wife do about it.

This right here caused me to take so many breaks from the site. I've had to remind myself constantly that everything is very very simplified here and that relationships are so much more complex. I also very much have a white knight mentality, where it's ok for me to think my wife is garbage but I don't like other people saying it.

Even now when I post that she has been doing really good things I will get people who can't see past their own pain and basically imply what you are saying here. I have learned to weed through it, because unfortunately many people were right about my situation.

I get pretty annoyed, however, at people who pretend they know things they don't and who have a one size fits all ideology.

Have never had the experience here of having anyone name-call my wife. That would result in a harsh response from me.

The "heroes" here at SI seem to be the ones who dump their cheaters immediately, while those like me who stay in for the long haul are the "chumps." None of that bothers me at this point. What does bother me is the newcomers in JFO who at times are bombarded by this point of view and bail out of the site.

The "heroes" here at SI seem to be the ones who dump their cheaters immediately, while those like me who stay in for the long haul are the "chumps."

I know I am still very new here. I know my W and can pin point when the A’s started I was denial for almost a year. I also know how sincere and transparent she is today. I understand R is a long tough road and we have to start somewhere.

It’s like driving across the country and getting 50 miles down the road and someone says you will never make in that car. I say well I’m going to try. if it breaks down we will work on it and keep going, we will have a couple flat tires along the way but keep going. If the car dies and cannot go any further, sell the car and move on.

The "heroes" here at SI seem to be the ones who dump their cheaters immediately, while those like me who stay in for the long haul are the "chumps." None of that bothers me at this point. What does bother me is the newcomers in JFO who at times are bombarded by this point of view and bail out of the site.

I really thought about this quote. Since I am firmly in the no R camp. Maybe it's my view on how all the shit went down with my ex that puts me there. Maybe I am petty and childish when it comes to someone else playing with my toys, I know that women are their own beings and the pair bonding we do is based purely on trust and commitment. When that is broken it's very hard to repair.

I think that my view comes from the fact that relationships take work, it's a job, but its a fun job. I told my exe all during the relationship that she was stuck with me and I would do whatever I could to make sure that we stayed together.

Did I, most times, I stumbled at the end because I felt I was the only one doing the work and I tried to talk to her numerous times about what I needed, all was ignored.

R is a big thing, and those that can move past it are heroes in my mind, I don't know if I could do it, I don't think my exe will ever try so maybe some of my postings are based on that anger that I wasn't good enough for her to try and make it work.

I think R really comes down to the two people that are trying. I have read many posts and articles about it and there really doesn't seem to be much data on success. Sure people do it and make it work, I am sure many don't and the marriage stalls and they end up divorced any way.

I try to add to all my posts that in the end the decision is up to you. We have all been through it but all of our experiences are different. We all know the details of the relationship, the members here only see what is shown to us.

I hope I didn't run anyone off but I know that when I first posted I was upset that my view wasn't taken into account but really I didn't want to hear what we being told to me because I still had hope that she would see the error of her ways and come back to me.

I sometimes come across as harsh but it's what I needed and I feel that with the majority of people that I see post they take a softer approach so it brings a balance to the force.

The only thing that matters is someone comes here and needs advice, like any advice you can take it or leave it. I found a few people I really like here and talk to because having a common touch point gives me a view into how someone else handled it.

I am glad you were able to make your R work and I wish everyone that wanted that had it happen. Sadly, I don't think it will happen for me but I am not psychic so maybe sometime in the future I will get a call or an email. I highly doubt it but there is always a chance, but really I don't know if it would matter, I was tossed aside like all of us here were, that sting cuts to the soul and sometimes can't be healed.

I used to be in the camp that believed "presuming you've got a remorseful spouse who isn't too much of an idiot[*], anyone can do this R thing if you just stick with it."

Then she cheated again 13 years later, and I've subsequently come to the conclusion that *generally* the juice just isn't worth the squeeze. Healing from infidelity the second time around -- having gone the divorce route -- was incredibly easier. (I say this about a week shy of the one year anniversary of D-Day...which is also the day I moved out.)

I'm fully cognizant of the possibility that it was easier to be decisive the second time because of my experiences the first time around. I'd already done all of the pre-planning (emotional, financial, etc.) for how I'd react if it ever happened again. So all I really had to do was execute that plan when the SHTF.

But because I've become a pro-divorce guy, that means I don't offer advice any longer. It's one the reasons that I've been largely absent from SI. I didn't need it to heal this time around, and I didn't want to do unnecessary damage by adding fuel to the traditional fires. I have faith in most BH's that they'll figure their shit out eventually, and when they finally decide what it is that they want and want to do, they'll just do that. (And if that stops working, they'll do something else.)

The best part of SI for me was always just being surrounded by a bunch of dudes who were walking the same road. Welcome to the Menz Thread, new guys. Sorry you're here, but glad you found us.

[*] This is a surprisingly high standard, it turns out.

I know I am still very new here. I know my W and can pin point when the A’s started I was denial for almost a year. I also know how sincere and transparent she is today. I understand R is a long tough road and we have to start somewhere.

If she's doing the hard work required and you can handle the journey, then why not? Hope both of you can make it.

sorryforeverythi

An excellent, thoughtful post. Thank you.

Over these years in infidelity my WW did very little to cause me to stay. She was evasive and cold most of these years. Of course she probably sees it differently.

I stayed initially because we had a little boy and I didn't want to be a weekend dad. Also I didn't want him exposed to every scumbag she might bring into his life. Once he grew up and moved out I stayed because of financial reasons and because by then I had settled into my own life based on the 180.

My wife lived and worked out of town for over 6 years and only came home on the weekends. So when she retired and moved back home last year, I told her that either things would change drastically in our marriage or I was gone. So she joined SI and began reading every day, goes to counseling regularly, did the polygraph this week and passed in order to rebuild my trust.

It's been a long, hellish experience for both of us and I wouldn't advise anyone else to do it this way. So I can understand why some would be puzzled and even dismissive of my particular decisions.

The thing is my wife never wanted a divorce but she didn't know how to help me. Had she once told me she'd had enough or if I had found out one more A or lie, I would have pulled the pin on the whole marriage. But that never happened. So here we are.

I'm truly sorry that things didn't work out for you and your marriage. You did all you could but she wasn't responsive so you had no other choice.

I don't recall ever advising anyone here to go either the R or D route. But I do encourage those who are attempting to R, and commiserate with those who are going the D route.

Also, for you guys still in the 4-6 month range, be aware that for lots of folks, the first real anger/rage stage seems to hit right about that time. It did for me. It took about 6 months to really wrap my head around the new normal, and then I was super-pissed about it.

That anger phase lasted about 3 years.

(Yours likely won't. Anger made me happy. Most people don't feel that way.)

Also, for you guys still in the 4-6 month range, be aware that for lots of folks, the first real anger/rage stage seems to hit right about that time. It did for me. It took about 6 months to really wrap my head around the new normal, and then I was super-pissed about it.

This is me right now. Anger has hit and it sucks but keeps me vigilant and focused at the same time.

[This message edited by Tanner at 6:41 PM, February 22nd (Saturday)]

Funny everyone keeps telling me about resentment phase anger phase, “oh crap year 2 will test you it’s brutal “ will anything ever improve? Is anger phase those thoughts of smashing OM’s head into ground chuck? If so I’m there. Don’t worry I’m jus be sarcastic.

^^^^^^^^^

Me too

4 to 6 months won't work with my schedule. I will be out of this in four more weeks, I made a contract with myself.

My first DDay broke me. Broke me into a million pieces. I never really hit a super angry phase, not consistently, I most just turned inwards and got suicidally depressed. That was the worst at about 1 month in. At around 8 months, I started to pull myself together. At nearly 5 years, I was starting to return to normal, then BAM! DDay 2.

DDay 2, I definitely felt the despair, the loss, like I was mourning a death, and in a way I was. Now, at just over 6 months out, I can confirm, anger is all I feel.

Not anger, rage. It's different. Anger is loud, sporadic, and mostly immature. Rage, on the other hand, is white hot and quite. Rage is calculating. Rage is focused.

I am enraged with my ex. Every time I have to exchange words with her, it grows. It feeds on me, and part of me is content to feed it. I no longer falter, I no longer care if I upset her beyond what her upset will do to my situation. I have no desire to mislead or deceive her, all I want is to bring the force of -me- to bear against her and take what is mine and ONLY what is mine. I will leave nothing. I will give nothing. I will take no more than my portion, but I will take my entire portion.

And then I will quietly, separately, and calmly let my rage bleed off while watching her fall. By providing the safe, comfortable home my daughters deserve while her chaos devours her.

That's where I am. It's comfortable here. Warm and dark.

Yup, rage.

Not anger. Not resentment, either. Resentment is sort of anger turned/inward or kept inside.

*****

w_a_l,

Your words are sobering, but I want what I want (when I want it). I'll take the necessary risk. Admittedly, my sitch isn't exactly normal.

We live this life, with no do-overs. Oooohhh, if only we had do-overs.

Before the A I did a lot of things over the years to try and relieve my anger and rage, yoga meditation, shooting, working out, motorcycles. Today I was splitting wood like a savage and remembered how good and comfortable that angry sad feeling was almost like and old friend but I know that’s temporary and eventually it will consume me.

Your words are sobering

I don't mean for them to be sobering, old friend. I made my wager and I lost. That's all it means.

I don't regret any of those "wasted" years because I raised my boys to adulthood during that time. Even knowing the outcome, I'd do it again for their sake.

What I've learned in the last year is that I really enjoy being single. It's incredibly less stressful than being married -- even when you throw in the single dad bit (for the ones we adopted).

I used to be pro-R because that seemed like the best way to heal effectively (if not necessarily efficiently). Then I learned the wisdom of some of the pro-D guys from back in the day who said that healing was much quicker and just as effective if you cut the dead weight. Having gone both routes, I think they're both right...but how happy you end up and how quickly you get there is a personal calculus based on many factors. I don't have any guidance for people there, so I don't offer any.

All we can do is be the best men we can be right now. That's the only thing we can control. After you've committed to that course of action, it doesn't matter where the cards fall. It doesn't steal any of your glory.

If I can steal an analogy, the path I took feels more like retirement than divorce. I put in all the work -- and it was damned fine work -- for a number of years. Now I don't have to do it any more. My days are mine to do with as I see fit. And it's peaceful beyond anything I could have imagined. I don't know that I'd feel the same way if I'd have sold off my stock options all those years ago and called it quits with work left undone. Idle hands can make a man bitter if he feels like he left work on the table.