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Tallgirl,

You mentioning of forgiveness got me thinking about what it truly means to me. I don’t think I will ever get to the point of forgiveness in the sense that it implies. I will never look at my husband and say “I forgive you”. For me it’s more a place of just letting go and accepting what he did, what he was capable of, and how he is changing. My forgiveness is not absolute and not always available. Every time we share a meal, a laugh, a date, intimacy, or just a simple joyful moment is forgiveness in my mind. I am more happy in those moments. I think that is what is meant when people say “forgiveness is for yourself”.

You mentioned not being able to stand your husband’s touch. I hope that changes for you. Even if you decide to divorce. Humans needs touch and interaction. I have always found it interesting how we all process and handle differently. I am almost 9 months from d day and the hysterical bonding ( if that is what it still is) is often and wonderful. I suspect it is what ultimately saved the marriage and I do know that it was the best decision for me and my family to reconcile. Hope all you ladies have a great day!

Emotionally drained after a MC session and an A convo. WH is barely coping, he cheats for five years and I feel bad for him - a little backwards.

He placed his hand on my leg when we were talking, I made him remove it. My loneliness is palpable yet I can’t open myself to him. during his A he was faithful to her - yesterday he said when I am in a relationship I am fully committed. I guess just not to me. Over those 5 yrs I suffered, he knew, I talked about being lonely, and wanting to be closer, etc he didn’t care. He would shut down the conversation. This callousness makes it hard to forgive.

As far as I can tell most people continued intimacy at some level during the A’s, so Returning to intimacy is a more “natural” step (not suggesting it is easy). For me, it is an emotional Everest.

This part of the betrayal is utterly raw after 8 months. I am caught In a whirlwind of emotions, the most prominent is the feeling of being ashamed.

Sorry for the raw post, it helps me to face my deepest shame and pain.

[This message edited by Tallgirl at 5:28 AM, February 19th (Tuesday)]

Tallgirl, let it all out. It helps. Don’t ever apologize for what you write or say. It’s healing. And I can certainly see that if intimacy was absent during the affair that returning to it now would be difficult. On the other hand, for months I struggled with the idea of how close were the times you slept with her vs me? Did you compare? Etc... so it all just sucks and I am very sorry you are struggling so much. At 8 months, I am doing so much better. I found a counselor who specializes with infidelity and sexual addiction. I hope soon that you find some peace and the ability to find a light at the end of the tunnel alone or with him. Hugs to you.

Tallgirl, if you haven't already, I recommend IC for you. And I would like to remind you that you have nothing to be ashamed of.

(((Gmc94)))

I can so relate to your post, particularly at the end.

I also have recently faced betrayal with my business partner and I was surprised by my initial emotional breakdown, but I think all the emotions from my WS betrayal came to the surface. I then had to try and isolate the two different betrayals in my life. It is hard to not start feeling a victim.

I'm also ackowledhing how you do take what you learn and start to apply it. The hypersensitivity following betrayal can serve you well and I have found the shift in how I deal with things empowering. Although I'm still a long way from feeling good with it all.

UK girl, I can relate to your post about the rules. My WS operated the same way.

I was wondering where you are at now, being no 12/13 years post DDay? Any regrets with the decisions you made?

I found emotional intimacy upsetting the other day. My WS cooked me a lovely 3 course candlelit meal on Saturday, it was lovely and we have had a real nice few days feeling connected, less emphasis on the A and more on enjoying the fact that we are in each other's company. Anyway he looked at me with a real loved up look in his eyes and I just got upset 1) acknowledging how long it had been since I had seen that look and 2) that that is how he would have been with his OW.

For a moment that I should have embraced, it was rather demotive for me, but later I realised it is because of the fear of being hoodwinked again, being drawn in to trust and let the walls go down.

Oh (((Sunny69))) - that is SO hard. I understand. Of course you are worried about being hoodwinked again. Me too. Trust is soooo hard to rebuild. I don't trust my WH. But I am able to live in the moment more - guess I've gotten to a point where I'm able to allow myself to be vulnerable in moments, but not in the M (not sure if that makes sense). The fact that you recognized what was going on sounds like a healthy thing to me.

- and I might think about a rewind on the "should have" WRT that moment with your WH. He was doing something nice, but there is no "should" as to how you respond - as to how you feel. Sometimes you will respond more positively, with vulnerability. Sometimes not. I try not to beat myself up about not fully trusting or being vulnerable in any given moment. When I can, I can, and I feel good about it. When I can't, I don't, and I feel Ok about that too. I never asked to be a betrayed spouse, any more than I asked to have brown eyes.

And (((TallGirl))). I'm so sorry you are so lonely. I get it. I'm fortunate to have family I could tell, but they have busy lives and I want to be mindful of not venting to the extent I wear out my welcome, so to speak. But I've not told a single friend. Most of the time I feel that I am living a lie. Another painful reality of the destruction caused by my WH - that I now live a lie because he chose to be a liar and a cheat. It can be very isolating. The shame associated with infidelity is just so rough. I found anger to be a pretty good antidote :)

yesterday he said when I am in a relationship I am fully committed

They are such boneheads, aren't they? For MONTHS after dday, my WH would repeatedly say that he was always "all in" in our M. He was "all in" during the 25 years of lies and deception, during 10 years of his PA - really? He said he was always "all in" because he never considered divorce. The hypocrisy of a WS is insulting. The fact that they cannot see their own hypocrisy through their selfishness is mindboggling. Did you call him on that? Did you express how that statement made you feel?

Big hugs to you. And I echo others - are you in IC? I did not find MC particularly helpful - we would have a joint session maybe 2x a month, but the suicide attempt pretty well put that to a stop. I think we've had 2 (or 1.5) joint sessions since then. If you have the resources, I would do IC. And if you don't have the resources, I'd seriously consider pausing MC in favor of IC until you are able to regain some strength and footing. The world's best message / lessons don't help much if they fall on ears too traumatized to hear, or souls too hurt to absorb.

Sending positive, healing thoughts your way.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 11:33 PM, February 19th, 2019 (Tuesday)]

So last night I tackled the "I am fully committed to my relationships" comment. Apparently that's not exactly what he meant to say, he meant now. Who knows.

I was in IC,I had 2 different counsellors - didn't love either. Finding competent MCs in infidelity is more difficult than I thought. We have a good MC counsellor, I'd like to go to her but I think that is likely a conflict - so I am searching. Between the two of us, I am the stable common sense one.

His relationship comment was dumbass and struck a sensitive cord.

He is aware of his past mean/cruel behaviour, cried during our conversations about it. He does not know why he behaved that way. I told him he was nicer to strangers than me. How could you not know why? I know when I'm being a bitch and typically I know why. Feels like a cop out.

I think I am done with "talks" for the week, I need to recover.

WH is on a business trip this weekend, I need the break and to regain some perspective. Sometimes it is just too much.

My youngest is coming home for "reading" week, nice to have him home.

Tall girl

Glad to hear you will have some time with your youngest.

As for IC, I would look for someone who specializes in trauma.

My infidelity IC is ok. But I am getting far more miles out of the trauma IC (who I began with before WH’s suicide attempt). There are plenty of methods for addressing trauma, but for me both EMDR and IFS have worked wonders.

I also highly recommend the body keeps the score and Hanson’s resilient. I did the audiobooks (I have trouble with focus when reading since day, but do better with audio - which is odd bc audiobooks used to put me to sleep). I liked body keeps the score so much I bought it to share with others.

Godspeed

I've been thinking a lot. My wife is one of those who had a long term affair and many many D-days. I do love her, and I do want to be with her. But I'm also feeling flat. Maybe that is not the word.

I just keep thinking what if. What if I walked away after dating her for six months. Six months was the first time she cheated. There were so many signs that she wasn't a safe partner. My mother told me she didn't care for her. She didn't flat out say she hated her, but looking back she didn't like her that much.

But I stuck by her. I gave her a chance. I gave her 110% the entire 14+ years we have been together. She has given me waves. She has so much baggage, so much self-esteem issues, that she hasn't been there 110% for me. Add in the cheating, and on the outside, I'm one of those wtf cases. I know very few men would put up with what I chose to put up with.

Right now our marriage is okay. It's not great, but it isn't terrible. But I don't want an okay marriage, and I want a great marriage. My wife is dealing with some shit. I'm dealing with some shit, a lot of it stems from what she has done, and the personality change in me. It was easier to just rugsweep it until the next blow, but each blow has taken another hit, and I'm exhausted. So now that she is doing the actual work, and I'm working on my co-dependency, it's hard. I don't wish this on anyone.

Hi FM, I am sorry you are here and feel flat. Totally know the feeling.

It is hard to keep moving forward when you have been devastated. Are you in counseling?

I decided to take a few Days off from all of the crap, yesterday was ok.

I have to imagine that some day we will all be totally happy, and we will, it is coming. Do something you love for yourself today. Watch a comedy. Say fuck it. Today is my day off from pain and say to yourself am going to have a good day.

Hugs

[This message edited by Tallgirl at 6:33 AM, February 22nd (Friday)]

It's been 4years and I've never posted my story.

But I remember thinking something was wrong and when I would ask him if he was cheating on me he would threaten me with divorce for questioning him.

Meanwhile he was cheating on me with 3 aps at the same time!

I'll never forget finding about 15 dollars hidden in a boot and for some reason I took a picture of it. After he got home I checked the boot again and there was a lot more money in it. I asked him and he lied right to my fucking face!

So I went to the barn and found a box with clothes, cologne and a burner phone. I was so shocked, this was a guy who was so shy that it took 6 dates for him to get up the nerve to kiss me.

I called one of the aps and found out this had been going on for two years! And btw she thought she was the only one. I still take great pleasure in hearing the shock in her voice when I said.... You know there's THREE of you... Right? He told me you were a hooker he paid for blow jobs. She wasn't and thought they were in some love affair. Shocked her how fast her ass hit the gutter.

We are reconciling but some days, even 4 years later I hate him.

I don't know if I'm in the right forum but thank you for letting me get this out.

Oh Scarlett. I am sorry that you had to go through this. How hard this must of been. I can understand feeling the hate. It is hard to reconcile that this person once loved you and then crushed your heart like it was nothing.

I feel you on the numb/flatness deal. DDay in June with discovery of a 5 1/2 yr affair. Thought R was going great only to find out she contacted him in early January, DDay 2 (now it's 6 years as far as I'm concerned). Always have done everything, been the cool guy about drinks with girls, time shopping alone, you name it. Could not have worked harder on M (if that is possible after normal M) to R after DDay 1. Totally lost now even though she is doing everything right. 25 yr anniversary is next week 2 days before my Bday. Really have no desire to celebrate M. Have to bring it up this weekend. Not looking forward to it, but brutal honesty is the only way I can make it through this funk.

Hi Thomas, we have some similarities... my 25th is in May, 5 yr LTA, WH is doing mostly everything right now & 2 kids and I am hanging out in limbo. And right now contemplating calling it quits.

For me DD2 was 2 months after DD1 and it was ugly. I havent been able to move on from the extent of his betrayal.

If you just had DD2 you don’t have to celebrate unless you want to. She should understand. I assume she wants R. It is sad that this special milestone has been tarnished. I am so sorry.

Do you want to R still? Or are you still thinking things through?

This is hard as hell and sucks.

I’m still fighting the good fight, but it’s much harder after you have given the gift of R only to be deceived again. 2 kids here too, great friends, and roots in the community, but you never know what the future holds, so do you keep working, watching, and hope for the best? I don’t know. Definitely in limbo here. It’s much harder (did not think that was possible) to smile and keep working on it after DDay 2. Looking for clarity soon as I want things to work out, but not at the cost of losing any more precious time on this earth I cannot get back. Sucks...

I don't blame myself for not knowing about my fWW 7 or 8 yr affair at work. I wasn't looking for it. I had complete trust in her and it never crossed my mind until the final few weeks before d-day. Of course now I can look back and see all the red flags that should have been more obvious than they were at the time.

A WS is actively attempting to make sure you never find out. Mine was pretty good at it, apparently.

A second time will be the last. If not, I fully expect every member of SI to come and beat the ever lovin' outta me, just on principle!

[This message edited by twisted at 8:58 AM, February 26th (Tuesday)]

My DD2 was 8 weeks following, we had talked about D then he changed his mind and wanted to talk honestly and have a tell all vomit session. He hadn't stopped cheating, of course. Seems most WS have the same storyline. I would have thought I would say it's over if there was a DD2 immediately - but I didn't. It's different when you are in it maybe. I was clear that I would not make a hasty decision, and that D was a likely option. He has been in the house. So now it is time to decide, he is working hard on being a decent person, and wants me to recommit. Last night in MC I told him I felt dead inside and he was a stranger in the marriage.

Honestly, I'm not ready - likely fear says that because my life will utterly change.

So I am in limbo. I guess I had hoped he would make the decision for me by lying or cheating. Bastard hasn't done either. I have pushed him away many times - saying go back. She's so awful he won't contemplate it. Notice that I haven't said I am so amazing that he doesn't want to contemplate it. He left me figuratively several times. I think staying for him is about him. Redemption, a public forgiveness and an acknowledgement that he is a changed man. He talks about love, it doesn't make sense to me. So here I sit, thinking about deciding.

Staying for me right now is about delaying the next set of painful events - D. I am not sure I can respect myself if I stay.

I envy those of you who are confident and know quickly what is right for you... so off to IC to figure out what I want cuz right now I don't know.

[This message edited by Tallgirl at 1:34 PM, February 27th (Wednesday)]

Tallgirl, hang in there. It gets better and easier whatever you choose. The one thing that saddened me is when you wrote “I am not sure I can respect myself if I stay”. Doing what is right for you, your family, your happiness, and your future is what should give us all self respect. Choosing happiness in your life, designing it the way you choose is respectable. Don’t ever think otherwise. Life is more than a marriage. Not even a good marriage should define one’s happiness or self respect. I know women who stay with chronic cheaters and just expect he is cheating. They don’t care. His actions are irrelevant to their happiness. I have nothing but respect for women unashamed to choose what they want in life. They like their lifestyle. Good on them for knowing it and unabashedly owning it. Design and own your life!:)