SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

What is your experience of the WS getting to a point where they stop demanding change before dealing with the harm they caused?

My WW wants me to address all the issues that "made her feel unloved" and will make her feel safe enough to listen to how she hurt me with her affairs. This seems like a nonstarter for me. I just cannot seem to work on things that she wants to see changed in me while she refuses to even listen to how I feel.

Argh.

In other news, she is now 26 days sober, going to AA and talking to her sponsor every day.

She has told me she realizes that all her efforts to rebuild trust over the past year were wasted because she was hiding her drinking and that led to lots of lying to me. I guess that’s progress.

Our MC has recommended we consider a marriage therapy intensive over a weekend. My WW is pushing for it. I’m apprehensive because my WW can’t handle an hour of emotionally difficult conversation without shutting down and running for a week. How are we going tot get through a whole weekend? Sounds like a waste of time and money to me.

What is your experience of the WS getting to a point where they stop demanding change before dealing with the harm they caused?

My WW wants me to address all the issues that "made her feel unloved" and will make her feel safe enough to listen to how she hurt me with her affairs. This seems like a nonstarter for me. I just cannot seem to work on things that she wants to see changed in me while she refuses to even listen to how I feel.

I can speak to this a little bit. I was like your WW in the beginning; I, too, immediately expected my BH to start working on the marital issues. It took a lot of, uh, strongly-worded but ultimately truthful and helpful conversations with members of this community to get me to realize my needs were going to have to take a big ol' back seat to recovering from the infidelity. One metaphor that I found helpful was comparing the infidelity to a shooting: The marital issue is some minor injury, like a skinned knee or a slap in the face, and the infidelity is like walking up to the BS and shooting them in the chest. Now the BS is bleeding out; they ought to be concerned about saving the BS's life, not putting a bandaid on the skinned knee. Or, maybe the marital issues are like a leaky roof, and the infidelity is like setting the house on fire. (Notably, you don't set your house on fire to resolve the leak.) Your WW needs to understand the devastating effects of infidelity first and foremost, and that recovering from that first needs to be priority. It also helps to know that it's way easier to approach marital conflicts effectively after one has worked on themselves.

You might consider directing her here, and having her post in Wayward Side with a stop sign. It might help her learn what she needs to learn as well as work through her own issues with those who have already done it to provide guidance and support.

Don't do the couples therapy weekend. That sounds disastrous. Focus on IC. She needs to get out of the shame-paralysis phase first.

The old issues you report are all issues your W has with herself. Once she takes responsibility for herself and starts to change from cheater to good partner - which will be signaled by her focusing on her own behavior - the old issues should fade, since she won't blame you because she feels unloved, and she'll be taking responsibility for her actions, including those which hurt you so much.

If she doesn't get there, my reco is to dump her and free yourself of the burden she is.

As you both take responsibility for yourselves, some old issues are likely to resurface . That's when you address them with (both of) your new strengths.

The old issues you report are all issues your W has with herself. Once she takes responsibility for herself and starts to change from cheater to good partner - which will be signaled by her focusing on her own behavior - the old issues should fade, since she won't blame you because she feels unloved, and she'll be taking responsibility for her actions, including those which hurt you so much.

If she doesn't get there, my reco is to dump her and free yourself of the burden she is.

As you both take responsibility for yourselves, some old issues are likely to resurface . That's when you address them with (both of) your new strengths.

100% agree with what sisoon wrote.

Affair repair always takes precedence over marital repair.

[This message edited by Unhinged at 4:17 PM, Sunday, May 24th]

As you both take responsibility for yourselves, some old issues are likely to resurface . That's when you address them with (both of) your new strengths.

I love this. My marriage had plenty of problems for sure. We both put much of that aside and have been working on ourselves and the infidelity issue first and foremost. As some of those older problems crop up, we both see and approach them much differently than before, and those old problems aren't nearly as problematic as we once viewed them. We just deal with things so much better now. Communication is so improved. I know it's a pretty tired platitude, but communication really is the key.

My WW wants me to address all the issues that "made her feel unloved" and will make her feel safe enough to listen to how she hurt me with her affairs. This seems like a nonstarter for me. I just cannot seem to work on things that she wants to see changed in me while she refuses to even listen to how I feel.

That would be a complete nonstarter for me. I mean, your MC's approach of "both-sides"-ing it is bad enough, let alone this DARVO by your WW.

Our MC has recommended we consider a marriage therapy intensive over a weekend. My WW is pushing for it. I’m apprehensive because my WW can’t handle an hour of emotionally difficult conversation without shutting down and running for a week. How are we going tot get through a whole weekend? Sounds like a waste of time and money to me.

Not to mention that any MC recommended by your MC seems unlikely to be any good at MC-ing.

Retrouvaille has been of use to SIers. Although it's based in a religion, the reports have all stated that the program itself has no religious requirement.

Riverswithfish:

Sorry to be so direct, but how's the intimacy? Any change at all? You previously posted that she has displayed some affection to you recently, but it was in a very limited way. You initially posted many months ago that you have not slept with your wife in over 2 years since her affairs, I believe. Has she shown sexual desire for you? Or is she, as I suspect, using her battle with alcoholism to keep you in the 'roommate' situation? I can envision her argument that she wants to address her addiction first, followed by the problems in the marriage leading up to her affairs and then and (only then) will she consider opening up sexually with you.

Please do not allow that to happen. None of this is your fault. And nothing you have done has damned you to a life as a celibate monk... as I advised you before I think your situation requires a complete re-boot- some sort of separation where she can concentrate on working on herself. Maybe a divorce, maybe not. You do not need to continue shouldering all of your wife's burdens, only she can fix herself.

Thanks for the follow up question re affection. I have had a direct conversation about physical contact. She got upset and said we could work on it in July. I thought that was arbitrary and ridiculous.

Two days later, she began initiating hugs, occasional kisses on the lips and checks.

I am learning to watch her actions and not give anything she says too much weight. This was a great example for me.

I think she realizes that I have needs for connection in my life and I’d prefer to connect with her. If she isn’t available, I’d rather divorce and have the freedom to pursue connection and intimacy on my terms instead of continuing to be held hostage emotionally and sexually.

She got upset and said we could work on it in July. I thought that was arbitrary and ridiculous.

Sigh

As I suspected. What's so special about July? Is she going thru any medical treatments or issues at this time that prevent her from having sex? If not, what does 'work on it' mean to her? Are you going to have to prove to your wife of close to 2 decades and the father to her 2 children that you're worthy enough to have sex with?

Simply, RiverswithFish, F THAT SH!T.

Ask her how much 'work' did she ask of her APs before she spread her legs? And don't let her hide behind her alcoholism. If she tries to blame it on her addiction, ask her to show you 1 piece of valid scientific or research-backed literature that supports alcoholism causing promiscuity or unfaithfulness- she won't because she can't. Just like nothing about alcoholism causes an intoxicated person to get behind the wheel and operate a motor vehicle. While I am somewhat sympathetic to the disease that is addiction, I am not the least bit sympathetic to drunk drivers. Likewise, alcoholism, on its own, does not create/lead to a cheater.

I went back and reviewed your initial posts in this thread... You posted back on OCOTBER 6, 2025(!!) in your very first post:

It’s been over two years since my WW (43F) had her first of two As. DD was 12/23/2023. As soon as I (47M) confronted her on DD, all sex and physical contact between us stopped. Her decision.

We have been in MC and IC for over two years and she is still "not feeling like" having sex or any physical contact. I’m going crazy.

And then a few posts later that same day this nugget:

Basically I’m all alone, but not single. I can’t seem to pursue her (if I do, I’m "not respecting her boundaries or being patient…") and I can’t ethically pursue someone else.

Well, since then you've filed for divorce, so guess what? You can now ethically pursue someone else in the eyes of almost all reasonable people. You know it may simply be the fact that she no longer finds you attractive or has simply fallen out of love with you? Ask her if this is the case, implore her to be honest to you. No matter her answer, tell her you deserve better and you have done nothing to warrant a life of celibacy. Tell her you refuse to continue to live with a wife, now for multiple years, with her last sexual experience, most likely, was with another man.

Now I'm not saying go jump into bed with a random hookup you meet in a bar or a dating app but I think it's time you had another hard conversation with your wife. Tell her since you've filed for divorce you consider yourself to be officially separated although it's an In-Home Separation. Change your Facebook status to 'Separated' if you're on Facebook. Start telling friends and family your updated status in front of your wife. Tell your wife you plan to start dating and to be fair the situation works both ways for the both of you. (Watch her reaction closely- I suspect she may simply be trying to get you to an open marriage but otherwise keep the status quo.) You both need to establish and follow rules- no bringing other partners to the home, absolutely no involvement of your daughters in anything with other partners and oh yeah... the financials stay the same. Yes, she can pay for you to date other women until the divorce is final and then obviously you would be on the hook (although you are expecting alimony.) Also, let her know- you don't do cheap dates. Any violation of the rules on either side, the offending party moves out. If she jumps on this arrangement too eagerly, drop the gas pedal on the divorce and get out. If she objects to this, there may be a chance for your marriage but only if she's willing to fight for you.

Let's see if this changes her outlook, I suspect she will initiate a seduction by the following weekend. And then play close attention to how she reacts. Do not get overly excited since it's your first sex in almost 3 years. Is she into the sex? Or is it just pity sex? Is she engaged or does she play dead starfish and basically has to fight from blurting out "just finish it already."

Sorry to be so blunt Rivers. Hopefully taking our advice and taking hard concrete steps has shown you some progress these past few months. Continue to play hardball. Life's too short.

[This message edited by NukeZombie at 12:16 AM, Thursday, May 28th]

You are still married. Even though your WW has been unfaithful and is slow to demonstrate real remorse or affection or marital sex, maintain your marriage vows. Always value yourself. Just my opinion but never stoop to her level. If your WW fails to meet your needs and become the partner you need and deserve, you have the option to file for D. It sounds like you are moving toward valuing yourself and not accepting an unremorseful, unfaithful partner. Keep it up! You are the prize!