SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Starting to be troublesome with the numbering since they blur between those "you know" and the drops 💦 of confessions coming out from trickle truths.

Unless i spend energy on inventory all her dirty stuff it’s natural to lose the thread I guess.
And I don’t do that anymore, is just not worthy.

So if I am following the very arbitrary count of my various just found out I could say this is DDay #4.

Yesterday she noticed me writing here (she really doesn’t like this forum as it makes her uncomfortable) and she said "don’t you think that forum is destroying our relationship?"

"That’s not possible " I answered her amused

"Because we are not married right?" Her ego’s salty irony alluding at the fact she wears a ring.

"Exactly "

And she got upset, and retaliated "but we do have a relationship!"

Me "Of course we do"

Her "So what is that?"

Me "We are roommates "

Her "So you weren’t joking when you said you were only here for our daughter?"

Me "I told you. And I don’t joke about important things "

So the usual circus.
She went into drama mode (I was fine and minding my business as usual) and when she inquired more I engaged like usual.

Then what do you know, minimization, blame shifting, gaslighting, it’s the past she didn’t say get over it but it is clearly implied).

All bounces off.

The moment when she gets to I just want to move forward, adding "with you" (because she knows my feeling is absolute: let’s go ahead, sign my divorce proposal and let’s move on, we can do it now), I had to reiterate that there is zero chance to move forward because the forward simply doesn’t have any starting place.

She burned it long time ago.

I spare you the rest because is a broken record and is frankly boring, but she eventually gets to the point where we repeat "there is no past relationship that is gone when you chose infidelity. Your dad is dead, you can’t move forward with him. My mom is dead, I can’t move forward with her. Our relationship is the same. The only thing we "could " do is rebuilding something new from zero. But that’s only possible if all the lies and secrets are gone"

Followed up by denial, minimizing etc the whole shabang.

Of course her take is I am the villain and cruel because it’s painful to hear that and is abusing her boundaries (she surely has put the language she learned in therapy to fruition. Progress?).

Considering that confronting her minimization and "get over it" with the truth is not abuse in my opinion, I just can’t accept bullshit and blame shifting any more from anyone, I simply smiled and said "I see. It’s okay" then proceeded to mind my own business.

Naturally she can’t take refusal for drama, chaos and my 180, so she tried again more accommodating and you know the drill.

More accommodating but still lies and trickle truths, but it slips out another confession of an affair I already found out that she swore it was purely emotional being physical.

Not that I care, for my meter there is no levels to infidelity, I see no difference between an initial interest/attraction/ looks and a gangbang orgy. The sewer is still sewer, no matter how deep she dives in the sewage, is her business, I don’t care, I don’t like the smell even from a distance, it’s all a dealbreaker so there’s that.

As suspected my guts were spot on, therapy and self work are helping her to heal some of her issues and I can see that.

About empathy and remorse, she isn’t there at all. Is still just shame and insecurity. And I don’t care about that.

Her ego is still alive and well. Feels entitled to me, desperate frustrated shittesting (even learning how to weapon use therapy language). Desperately trying to reinstate the status quo through manipulation and narrative rewriting to fit the fantasy she wish we had.

Again the past is past and it was long time ago is the main thing in her mind.
- No matter how much you explain that trickle truths means just it’s a long time you cheat and lie and keep protecting your cheat and lies with more lies and betrayal.
- she already knows that for the nerve system time doesn’t matter. I found out now about her infidelity from a million years ago. Then it happened now. Not yesterday, today.
- that her not disclosing guarantees that this situation does repeat itself over and over and over in the future, because I know of it all my guts does, but her not coming clean just means one day the truth pops up and this time she can’t deny it (which is lying anyway, so can’t you see is wrong?).
- Can’t understand that ddays are like stepping on a mine while you are hiking in a forest on a sunny day. Lies will never outlive truth, it will come out eventually. Lies survive only when the lied one wants desperately to believe that you are not as horrible as your intuition screams. I accepted that people are who they are, not who you would want them to be.that’s why they are all falling like dominos one by one.

So she asks about the pain, and I explained her again that if I was like before I would be devastated, back in the abyss once again. She claims it’s painful to hear. I told her I believe it, but she can’t compare with how painful is being on the receiving end of her decisions.

You don’t like hurting right? Ever tried wondering how this side feels like? Don’t you want to know? Why?

However I was already half my life on that hellish abyssal rollercoaster, so I am not minding or worrying about she offering me more and more tickets for another ride. Seen that, done that. I am good.

The soul crushing pain for her infidelity is no more. It died with the death of my older me. I am not numb, I am not dissociated (I was both for years when she did what she did).

Her infidelity is still painful but is not eviscerating. It’s more like a wasp sting or a hornet sting order of magnitude.

It stings, it hurts for a moment, but is just a nuisance that gets over as quickly.
But surely your pretense that I stick myself I blindly in the hornet nest is met with a laugh. You are still around so some stings are expected, I already saw them coming. I have no reasons nor interest to go there intentionally though.

When I get stung I flick you off, massage, laugh it out and forget it.
That’s your dream fantasyland and I don’t care to visit it. Know it already, was a bad show, the worst I saw. I am good. You do you.

But I have to say it’s a real pleasure watching her ego collapse when realizes that all the stories she must be telling herself are not real.
I didn’t go back. I didn’t move. I didn’t buy in any of her Bull. I don’t care.

I am still fine rebuilding my life and I’m simply don’t care about that trash.
I come first, I allow people close, but I keep my direction, the path I chose, anyone can join but I refuse to be dragged down by anyone.

What matters is me and my daughter, that’s the only person I carry until her wings are dry enough to fly. I drag no one else.

Thanks for the one line that made me laugh.

She has boundaries

I’m sorry you are stuck in this situation with a liar and cheater who blamed you for their decision to cheat.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 9:06 AM, Thursday, June 18th]

Thanks for the one line that made me laugh.

Always ready to give a lady a good laugh, Wife!

I have indeed developed a specific type of irony, it’s maybe a bit dark, and it is a shame this format can’t carry my tone, because I genuinely find it worth of ridicule (perhaps not funny but still hilarious in a way).

I don’t know if weaponizing therapy’s language is a normal thing for waywards or I just find myself facing a particularly nasty and unremorseful ego here.

Sure I don’t bite nor swallow any of that stuff.
No more.

I have a totally different take on what you are doing…

I think you are right now cheating on three people.

Your wife’s infidelities give you two realistic options IMHO.
If you want to, and if she complies to requirements, the two of you can reconcile. It’s not easy, and it requires a lot of openness, honesty and extremely hard work. But it is possible.
If you don’t want to reconcile and/or she isn’t complying to what that requires, then you have the option of leaving the marriage and the relationship. Again – not easy, and requires work and change. But it is possible.

Basically, it sounds like you have opted for that path – that option – only without the "leaving the relationship" part. Emotionally divorced from this marriage without the normal and expected physical distancing.

IMHO you are selling yourself short – and thereby cheating on yourself – by remaining married to a woman you state you don’t want to be married to and don’t want to reconcile or create (or even attempt) to create a healthy marriage and relationship with.
Yes – I got the line about your daughter – but you are also selling her short in raising her to observe that parents are cold and distant and don’t show respect to each other. No matter how you hide it – kids pick up on the tension and resentment and distancing. Keep in mind that kids base their future relationships on what they experience; your daughter will think that it’s "normal" to be in what is basically an emotionally mutually abusive relationship. You are not doing your daughter any favors in raising her in a toxic environment…

Yeah… I have heard all the arguments about missing out, wanting to be there and all that. But IMHO – and supported by all sorts of research and papers – the key to a child’s emotional family-growth is a nurturing environment of respect. You two can provide that environment as divorced parents that focus on good coparenting.

Then you are cheating on your wife by keeping her there. That’s maybe the least of my concerns but honestly – if she were to post in the wayward forum and I sensed she was being honest and was willing to do what was required to even possibly reconcile, and at the same time you keeping your stance – I would be telling her that there are 2 good paths out of infidelity. Reconciliation or divorce. Since you aren’t open to R then D is the only path left for her.

Sorry – I just say it like I see it. Nothing easy in what we are dealing with.

Then you are cheating on your wife by keeping her there. That’s maybe the least of my concerns

I'm aware that you've said it the least of your concerns, yet I don't feel it's cheating at all. It's the opposite. One of the most painful things of infidelity is being robbed of your agency. You can't accurately make decisions if you are being fed lies. Giving your wife agency is being open about your feelings and letting her make her own decisions about what is best for her. It's the kindest thing to do.

What matters is me and my daughter, that’s the only person I carry until her wings are dry enough to fly.

I hate that infidelity puts so many of us in the difficult and complicated position of determining what is best for our families and our lives. Everyone has different circumstances. We can only do our best to evaluate and act accordingly with all factors. Best to you.

I think you are right now cheating on three people.

I should be posting on the wayward side then. I just don’t see it in all honesty.

I could live. I am very aware of it. It’s an option.

I already presented my divorce proposal. I want nothing.
She keeps home, cars, money, assets, everything.

I will have to move back to my home country, there will be exactly 1000 miles between me and my daughter (1600 km plus change).

There’s no chance that I would ever receive custody. No coparenting either due to the distance.

I am very aware this means I will be probably able to see my daughter once, maybe twice a year.
She is adopted, traumatized by abandonment of her biological parents. Losing me would be hard to understand, maybe when she is grown up. Now, she gets panic attacks if she’s being scolded and I leave to another room. She needs that kind of constant connection.

We have no other kids, the STD she got from her affair partner and she refused to cure for 18 years until recently, cause miscarriages and infertility so our biological kids were lost very early few years ago, literally down the toilet.

I do no longer consent in sacrificing my being, happiness or silently swallow the lies of my betrayer to avoid ruining her fantasy.

I simply cannot people please or shut up about what I truly feel. It might be harsh to hear, but not saying what it is true that would feel like betraying myself again.

She asked me to not bring it up. She promised that she will change come around, to give her time.

She is doing the work and I do see some changes. Positive ones.

But the part about empathy, the part about honesty, disclose and check with me. That part is nowhere in sight.

It has been 4 months. I held my side of the deal, never brought it up, I don’t care.

Slowly few really bad comments started to poke, stinging, probing, I know that kind of tests very well, I remember them. I can never forget them.

So when she speaks about me being here and that’s somehow being frame as "toxic" for us, I know very well what that means.

I am no longer alone, I am no longer isolated, I have no fear to speak.

That her ego cannot stand it.

And I cannot stay silent or "be nicer". I tell, calmly. Jokingly even. And it lands. Because is the truth. My version never changes, not until I believe she truly changed, and she proves it to me.

If this makes me a cheater, then I am clueless and I should have this thread moved to the wayward side.

I'm with Bigger.

The dynamic you've described again and again is a set of Drama Triangles. For 17 years, you were the Victim, and your GF/W was the Persecutor. Now you've switched from Victim to Persecutor yourself, and you've made your W the Victim.

You say you're staying for your daughter, but you keep describing issues at home, and she has to be aware of your unhappiness, your W's unhappiness, etc., etc., etc. You say you don't want to leave her, but that's about you, not about your daughter. Your daughter is the 3rd Victim.

Kids tend to do better after D when one parent is emotionally healthy. You can make yourself healthy. You can thrive even after your 17 years of being stuck. You can be a good father to your daughter. You can do all of those simultaneously, if you change what you're doing.

Because right now, you describe living a life that's unlikely to get you what you say your goals are. You can do better than that.

Yeah, I'm with Bigger on this.

While I strongly disagree with Bigger’s assessment and quite frankly think comparing your choices to 'cheating' is a cheap and inaccurate blow (though I suspect done for impact) I do think you should aim higher than your current predicament. To be absolutely clear: nothing you are doing is morally wrong, and any suggestion otherwise appears to me entirely unfounded. Bigger’s logic falls apart because cheating requires a breach of trust, and your wife broke that trust years ago. You aren’t betraying a relationship; you are simply managing the wreckage of one.

However, just because your actions aren't morally wrong doesn't mean they are good for you.

Right now, you are using your detachment as a shield. You've successfully built a wall so thick that her lies and 'trickle truths' can only sting you like a wasp, rather than eviscerate you like they used to. That is an incredible feat of self-preservation, and it proves how strong you are. But a shield is meant to be a temporary defense in a battle, not a permanent home. Living as detached roommates in a house built on old landmines means you are spending a massive amount of subconscious energy just staying on guard. You are settling for a life of 'not hurting' instead of a life of 'actually being happy.'

I don’t pretend to have all the answers here, and I am certain there are massive, exhausting practicalities like co-parenting your daughter and untangling finances that make leaving feel impossible right now. But you can do it. You deserve a life where you don't have to dodge stings at all, and where your home is a sanctuary, not a theater for a 'broken record' circus. You deserve better, but it will take some definitive, hard work to claim it.

Side note: Sometimes I find it bizarre who people choose to give tough love to on these forum and those they don't. Seems inverted to me at times. Themes and agenda at play... I. Certain of it so id recommend baring that in mind.

[This message edited by DRSOOLERS at 9:30 PM, Thursday, June 18th]

Again I must be incapable of explaining what the reality of life is because I express what I see inside myself and why I respond to some things from my wife the way I do.

Because I was a mess during my trauma and ptsd. My wife was a mess too.
Our daughter felt that stress then. Everything was unspoken and under the rug. But we barely kept it together.

You do assume from my stories that the life here must look grey, sad, full of stress and tensions., dissociation.
Well it used to be like that.

Is not like that anymore today. Not at all.

I found myself again, the person I always was but free of traumas and baggages. Those are "metaphorically " dead. I do know they existed. I do know they belonged to me. I do remember the pain and weight of that mountain that I carried half of my life.

You know how it looks like today?
My wife is in love like a teenager. My presence regulates and reassures her. Same goes for my daughter.

We have more energy than in our 20s, we get out, do some unpredictable things together, like a family. All 3 search each other. Chores and life’s little crises are something that gets resolved quickly, efficiently, almost casually.

Our overall health is improved. Our finances have improved. Our happiness has improved.
You would never think that our family is anything other than happy, because it is not a performance, it’s natural now.

Sure at the root of it all there was my reclaimed self worth, agency and a confrontation between me and my wayward wife.

That was painful for her and liberating for me.
Is when she for the first time realized that she was never working to change her patterns, she just rugswept and flies low. She built a narrative of happiness and peace that just wasn’t there, nobody felt it, it was miserable and it was performed.

She cried for the first time realizing that what she did was not normal and forgivable but something horrible.
She promised she will commit to change.
She swore she will fight for us.
She said it was good to have me back. Not as an empty shell, but me.

But the foundation of it all was both of us realizing that our "reconciliation " after her infidelity was fake.
She was never honest about it. She kept lying and editing the story to be less shameful.

Every single thing we have was built on that rotten foundation.
And I couldn’t stand it anymore, I had to call it for what it is.

A lie.
Because whatever you build over a lie is nothing but false, tainted at birth.

I committed to the truth. She committed to.

She swore she wants to rebuild. I told we can only build from zero, but there can be no more lies to that foundation, or all would collapse again.

She agreed.
She begins to change and do all the right things, reconnecting with me with all her energy.

And then confessions started to come. It wasn’t just an affair, not only one infidelity.
There was another one.

She gives me open access to her mails, texts etc.
There is another one.

And another one.

And another one.

Go on up to twelve.

She did confess and open up more but she trickled truth on other infidelities that I tried to confront her with in the past, right before my complete destruction, because she thought they didn’t matter and I would just suffer if I found those out.

So she kept secrets.

You imagine the feeling you get when not only you realized your earlier reconciliation was a fake, but there were actually more affair before and after it.

With the whole corollary, minimizing, excusing, blame shifting etc.

I simply stood my ground and told her my boundaries are simple. Until we get out the whole truth no reconciliation is possible. I don’t want to repeat the first time again and again and again.

You claim you are a different woman and you are absolutely sure I am the person who you want the most in your life. That you are changed and you are disgusted by your past choices.

And I can sense that she is honest when she says that.

However the shame she Carrie’s keeps the truth still hidden is like her memory is frozen and blocks it all.
I know it’s possible that the psyche blocks you access to memories if they are traumatic.

My only condition is unchanged, I need truthfulness or trust can never come back.
You can’t trust someone when the version of a story keeps changing every time, so radically depending on who she is telling it, that is baffling to see, incredible she doesn’t even notice it.

And when you point it out she realizes and reacts shocked, not like someone caught in a lie, but like someone realizing their mind is playing a script they don’t even remember. It’s like an emotional block that changes her behavior in real time, she does act like a different person, it’s almost creepy.

She promised to work on her to unblock this emotions and memories.
She is doing it religiously. I can’t honestly say she isn’t committed to it.

And I stopped pushing because she gets in that frozen state. It works to brute force it for a moment, but as the pain she feels increases she always freezes.

I am not her therapist, it’s not my role to heal her. I am the betrayed partner who is still around, or if you wish, the idiot that is still around because he can see there’s good in her, even if she is still deeply broken.

I can be many things, one thing I am sure I am not though:
A cheater.

I don’t lie. I don’t go behind her back. I don’t deceive her into believing something that is not. I don’t indulge in other women nor respond to their constant invitations.

I tell her the truth of what I feel.

I am open to try to reconcile IF she becomes a safe partner.
- if the lies stop
- if she comes forward and tell me everything
- if I can be serene that I won’t find another hidden affair partner months of years from now
- if she finally checks with my past pain and shows empathy
- if she owns herself as accountable and stops blaming me or others for her choices

She asked me to give her time. She promised that she will do it. She asked me to stop inquiring and digging to leave her do it through therapy and then come around to me.

She might have done the right things since the first confrontation, but there are a few points on my list that are just not there.

I held my part of the bargain, I don’t push, I don’t bring it up, unless it’s really coming up because something she does or say is so out of touch that would trigger any Bs to crawl into a ball and cry.
It doesn’t hurt me like that now, but it does still stings and pisses me off when it happens.

I can only bite my tongue so much, if you bring up those things I can’t avoid to confront them.

And often a new affair comes out, like yesterday.

Are these confrontations harsh and painful? Yes, for her for sure. For me it’s a sting it’s unpleasant and burns a little but it doesn’t throw me again into the abyss. Or perhaps it does it, but is just a quick dip, I bounce out of it immediately. I know that place all too well, it was my home for too long, I know the way out and I don’t like to indulge inside it.

What I can do besides breaking up, leaving her and traumatize my daughter even more, it’s just keeping it all inside, or writing here about what I feel, what I felt in those moments. Why I think it’s still painful but it doesn’t destroy me like it would, like it should.

I still have pride that no matter what she did, no matter how hurt or consumed I was during our relationship and marriage then, I always had her back, I always thought about the good things she’s capable of, and I fought harder to make our life better however I could.

Never faultered never even allowed me to be tempted. Never asked for a thank you or recognition of my absolute loyalty. Never complained or shamed what to me was a business between me and her. Nobody else knows but me her and her friends who witnessed her affairs.

The only place where I speak of what I felt and feel is here.
And that’s not the first time I’ve been called a "cheater" here for that.

Again it’s not pleasant and I absolutely don’t recognize myself in that judgement.
But I could be also be completely off the rails and be wrong. What can I say, I’m fine moving to the wayward side if that’s the case.

I find it helpful to keep writing and to help others if it does.
Just let’s make it clear so I won’t be posting in this section anymore.

I am ok with it.

All I know I never betrayed my girlfriend or my wife, not even with the thought, and I never will.
That’s something I know and I will keep my head high for it no matter what.